Let’s Talk Fertilizer & Schedule ( again)

[dougall]

In spite of the opinions of a few folk whose opinion I really value, I'm also in favor of just usi g medication that's designed to be ok with your other tank inhabitants.

My issue us that the fish are likely suffering while infected.. I'd prefer faster than saltvalibe offers.

 

[Kimunaffected]

But you don't want to use salt or many medications in a planted tank with sensitive fish and/or invertebrates. The real question is do you want to treat the whole tank or a hospital tank? I am so glad for some of the natural medications, that would have been great to have that 30, 40 years ago.

I heard that salt was bad for Corydoras but more than that without an adjustable heater I figured having something stronger to treat the whole tank in my arsenal would be handy. Since naturally taking care of ick without moving the temp doesn’t seem to have much result. ( or is that another assumption on my part?
) I need to stop reading online so much haha and just stick with what works because I also read that new temp for gbr pair is not preferred by my gudgeon a or corys If I had an adjustable I could play around with it possibly. I can find a home for gudgeons without too much heartbreak since they hide most the time.
But I really like my Pygmy’s

 

[Kimunaffected]

But I don’t ever wanna a doom a dish to a slow death just because I like them either.

 

[the loach]

With 'natural medications' I don't mean higher temperatures or salt, I should have written 'herbal medications', I've used Herbtana against ich, it works against other parasites as well. It can be safely used in a planted tank, on catfish, with shrimp and snails. For me it's probably the modern thing about the hobby I like the most.

 

[Kimunaffected]

With 'natural medications' I don't mean higher temperatures or salt, I should have written 'herbal medications', I've used Herbtana against ich, it works against other parasites as well. It can be safely used in a planted tank, on catfish, with shrimp and snails. For me it's probably the modern thing about the hobby I like the most.

Gotcha! Ok I did find that line at petco when you mentioned it earlier so I did some reading. That is def if my shortlist.

 

[fishorama]

My problem with most herbal "remedies" is they don't say what's in them. They "support the immune system", hmm, so they do actually kill anything? Hard to say...they don't claim that & don't need to.

Things like Stress Coat have aloe vera that slimes up the fish in hopes that external parasites can't get into or onto the fish's skin or gills... if they aren't there already. Other "people" herbal tx can have issues too. Oregano oil has interesting properties but the LD 50 is very low (that's the dose that kills 50% of the test animals). There are many natural products, they aren't tested for efficacy or dosage; since they can't be patented companies go for "proprietary" mixtures...We just have to guess what's in them & if they work in fish.

I don't think a short round of salt or other "fish" med. treatment is unsafe for most plants or most fish, but maybe for some inverts. I forget what I was treating (not ich) for but my plants, pond snails & so called scaleless fish (corys &/or loaches) didn't seem harmed in any way. This short term use is much different than people who use "aquarium salt" on a regular basis. Often the salt issue is really a sharp rise in TDS. Many of our fish, plants & inverts survive in, maybe not brackish water, but with some ocean salts washed into their habitats by seasonal tides or mineral salts seasonally during low water times.

ALL treatments come with risks, so does doing nothing...

2 of the ingredients in "Kim's med" are known by California to cause cancer...I don't think if salt or dyes are used for 2 or 3 weeks to treat ich we are endangering either our fish or ourselves...in CA lots of things have issues, lol.

Like I said before I have not had to treat ich in many (many) years. I study my fish for quite a while before buying & quarantine for 4 weeks almost always, except for fish from fellow hobbyists I trust. I know not everyone can do that. But I also don't believe in hitting fish with every drug available "just in case" if I can't tell what's likely wrong, if anything. I like to have a good idea of what I treating for & make an informed decision I how I treat it. The only exception is treating botia-type loaches for internal parasites, but I haven't done that for 10+ years either...no new botiids for me lately, sniff.

OK, that's my herbal rant... again for now...

 

[the loach]

Well many of the chemical medications will warn you that it's not safe for scaleless fish, invertebrates, plants, etc. That's not a good thing to use in your community tank. Not a problem in a hospital tank, until you want to treat one of the fish that it is listed as unsafe for. I still have the tanks from 40 years ago they still have stained sealant from the malachite green, methylene blue etc...
Salt has been used so much in the past many of the parasites including ich are now tolerant of low doses. Dr Johnson did an article about this. That is a problem for soft water fish.
Don't know if Herbtana has on the bottle what is in it, but don't care to look if it has or if doesn't. I'm lazy if I can treat fish safely without catching them and it works... I have used it for a decade for flukes and ich, it worked fine. At first I was concerned it might hurt shrimplets in the tank but they were going on doing their business just like before dosing. Other herbal medications might not be effective, don't know I'm sticking with this one...
I think it is a great thing to have a more modern product to treat planted tanks, just like the modern high CRI fluorescents and leds.

 

[Kimunaffected]

I think having an adjustable heater is a great start and possibly holding onto the current meDs while I do more reading. ( hopefully I won’t be re doing this anytime soon)

 

[fishorama]

tl, could you please give me a link to Dr. Johnson's article? I love to learn new stuff.

You do know loaches are not actually scaleless? They have very small imbedded scales, at least all I've studied. Corys have "plates" instead of scales, like plecos. Inverts, well, I did say I'd only had experience with pond snails & meds, I swear they live through almost anything. Shrimp I don't know with meds, I never had a need to find out. I think much of the "not for scaleless fish" thing is to cover their behinds, not because it's actually been tested on them...or as I do, half in the am & half in the pm, I've never had problems dosing that way.

Pfui ( or however it's spelled), you know way more about LEDs than I, lol. That's not the same as meds, natural or not. Show me the studies!!

 

[the loach]

I went to Doc Johnson's site, I can't find the article, he has overhauled his site. His article/study wasn't new, it was like 10 years old. I will try and search again tomorrow. "scaleless" is just something they say it's not very accurate, for example some of these treatments include some tetras with that as well. Not all medications are safe for all fish, some species are more sensitive than others that's just the way it is.