Mafia #51 - Mafia Citizens - The Play

[plantling]

ATTENTION OH BALA JL MODERATOR:

Plz clarify if the rebels are able to protect themselves. From the rules it appears that the wiseguys are not able to protect the Don and the rebels are not able to protect each other:

Wiseguys will do whatever they have to keep the Don in control. They know who the Don is, but not who the other Wiseguys are. They will know the details of the blackmail. One wiseguy will have the power to grant mafia protection. Before nightfall a name of a player (not the Don) will be submitted to receive mafia protection for the next day cycle.

Rebels will try to return ACville to the past. They don’t like being controlled by the Don and they sure don’t like all the flashy cars and fancy restaurants. They have seen the dark side of the mafia and wish to save the people of ACville from themselves. They work in the shadows from fear of Don and his wise guys. Before nightfall a name of a player will be submitted to hit and another player (not a Rebel) to receive witness protection for the next day cycle.

But from post 99:

Some answers...



When a player that was presumed dead comes back from protection the town will be told they have returned - since they were protected, when they die, I will not reveal anything more than they were a citizen.

1. If it was mafia protection then the one wiseguy that protected the player will know and that player will be a wiseguy, not able to communicate, but get the blackmail details from the Don.
2. If it was rebel protection, then all of the rebels will know, plus that player will become a rebel.
3. If it was bala protection, then only the bala will know.

For the most part, the majority of the town will not know the status of the returning player.


The protections are for lynch's. Anyone can be protected. If a wiseguy wants to protect the Don and the Don get's lynched, then a wiseguy will be promoted to Don and when the player returns, they will be a wiseguy. Now the ex-Don could have been protected by the bala, but not the rebels. The ex-Don would return as a wiseguy or a mafia citizen.

If the rebels and the wiseguy protect the same person there is no protection. If the rebels protect the Don or a wiseguy, there is no protection. There will be no double agents. No player that was a wiseguy will return as a rebel and no rebel will return as a wiseguy. They may return to their original "team" or be citizens. They will not turn. The Don, the wiseguys, and the rebels will return from protection if their own team selected them or if bala sselected them.

I hope this clears this up.

By the way, there are protections for this first lynch and I will need tomorrows protections before nightfall. If for some reason your protected player does not make it through the night, you lose that protection. (you were a day late!)

Part of me wants to tell the player they are being protected, but am unsure - I think they should know. Also there is no rule against voting for yourself.

I hope this clears this up. For the record my plan to mod a game was to keep it simple with some twists.

Speaking of twists, is that blue mist coming from the east?

Also have are you letting the ppl know if they have been protected?

 

[maverickbr77]

Thank you for thinking I have the powers that be to dogpile on Zig all by myself. But if you'd read my posts I have stated why I think it was Bala protection that brought Zig back. Also are you suggesting that since I was the first voter on Zig I was psychic enough to know there was going to be a dogpile or do u think the others on Zig are my cohorts? That would include CJ, Coler, RB (who is beyond a doubt an innocent townie if u didn't realize), and Kashta. Who if any or all of those besides RB do you suspect are my underlings?

CJ has been so quiet who knows what is up with them, coler could be scummy a number of people have noted it but we haven't seen anything solid on him yet (IMO), RB was just screwing around he wasn't realy into the game even though he was pro-town, and kashta was voting to save herself


I cant help but still be suspicious of you Plant the last minute vote switch attempt if y9ou wanted kashta why not vote her earlier to make sure she was out or was she your good distraction and if it had gone through well one innocent is as good as another. the whole attack on Kashta day two keeping us focused on her and off everything else and now you back off because she may be protected. she could have been protected day one or two she has been i viable lynch candidate every day.

I vote to lynch plantling

 

[ZSandmann]

That was a horrible nightfall...I may have to rethink the Kashta vote and roll with it this time. But I would rather discuss it than vote quick.

Players left:

Kashta-has been in the running for the past two days, I can't say for sure if she is evil but its definitely worth discussing more
plant-something isn't sitting right with me...the immediate jump on Kash has been discussed as fishy
Dawg-playing like himself, which worries me actually.
Coler-I have no idea although he did vote off Zig night 1
Zs-I always get a bad feeling about him, sort of like Dawg he plays well enough to keep his gameplay level-headed
Luvbugz-haven't seen anything wrong yet, although there has not been much to stick out either
Maverick-if they are evil they are doing an amazing job, I got nothing on my radar
DD-has been pretty non-confrontational, which is normal but always makes me nervous because there is nothing to base the suspicion on
bkw-eh, we've had some disagreements/misunderstandings but I think the only way to pick a side would be to know Kashs role
MC-neutral.
cj-not posting much so no read
Zig-voted off night one so I basically have to start over on him...

This really looks like a Day 1 list, which is sad. Right now I think the best move would be to go for Kashta and maybe as those seem to me to be the best suspects, but I'm open for anything at this point. Again, I am not sure quick votes are the best thing to do.

Right out of Nightfall Pappy says I give him a bad feeling. Then says quick votes are not good right now which seems to be addressed to me.

what the hell?

This makes zero sense. first of all the mafia are the gods guys and the rebels are scum so obviously we don't want Zig to be a rebel. Therefore the don is good which you insinuate me and zs are under the control of. Problem is that the wise guys can't communicate with the don. You obviously didn't read the rules or you're just throwing complete garbage out there.

And how are me and zs suddenly working together? Apparently we have the same suspects. So what?

And my bit about reverse psych was saying that there is no point in guessing why the mucs chose mad because there are tons of reasons and it's a waste of time. I've played with this same attitude for many games now. Nothing new...

But here he defends us as having the same suspects ( which several others have as well)

Still, when players are in the running night after night I think the teams are going to catch on. I wouldn't be surprised if both teams tried to protect Kashta yesterday.

With all this side switching I really want to hear from Zigman. There's a 50/50 chance so we'll have to deal with him sooner or later.

As for the rest...I really can't seem to see who out of plant/Kashta/Zs is really telling the truth. Things seem to be getting really muddled.

We've lost Ice, Mad, and Jb as vanilla citizens. Zig, again, is up in the air and we don't know yet what TRS is for sure.

Except mad and ice were both hit and found to be citizens...there shouldn't be any connection.

Here he says he doesn't know whether I am being truthful, or if Plant or Kash are truthful.

MC you definitely have not read the rules well enough. Mad was HIT, protections only work for LYNCHES.

You are acting far too suspicious right now but again, I don't think JL would add you as a rebel. Not yet anyways...

And why would me and ZS, who are supposedly in cahoots with plant, name her as a top suspect? Why would we try to have any connection at all? We're better players than that, aren't we?

Here he says we can't be on the same team with Plant (which is ridiculous).

Luvbugz is making me nervous. They jumped right onto plant but it's already been said that it would take a lot of foresight to get zig lynched after protecting him.

Except plant was the first to vote Zig. Coler, Rb, and Kashta were really the ones to "dogpile" him.

My thoughts are this: the case on Kashta is all based on the first and second day so why exhaust the same posts over and over? Mad and plant pulled up pretty much every post of hers so I don't see why it needs to be repeated today. At this point everyone should have at least one or two other suspects.

I still don't get why she picked DD, but I think Zs still needs watching too.

I highly doubt the numbers even started even and at this point there are considerably less vanilla citizens than what we started with. So unless you know exactly how many PRs there are, I wouldn't say there is a 1/3 chance of scum.

Lastly he says I need watching even though we all should be watching everyone anyways.

Ok so I won't have much time online today I am afraid, hopefully I can get back in tonight before Night. I was looking back over Plant, Mostly, and Zig's posts because of the increased focus on me Today. I was trying to convince myself which of these could be a Rebel, but I kept bringing myself back to OMGUS logic, and I do not want to place a vote with that mindset. What I saw was actually something not really even on my radar at the time.

Several people have tried to connect me and Pappy as a team, and I haven't seen it. I do agree with some of what he has said and it seems he has agreed with me, but I would hope co-Citizens would have the same thoughts. Instead what I saw (bolded above) is a pattern of Pappy defending me or disagreeing with those posting things about me, followed by subtle nudges that I can't be trusted or am otherwise suspicious. Pappy is IMO a very good player and this is something that will not be noticed reading each post in its place in the thread, but when assembled all together they seem to be ever-so-subtly pushing me forward as a suspect.

I vote to lynch JPappy.

 

[johnlarson66]

Okay, the Bala ate some bad Rb and is a little out of his mind.

Seems that post 99 goes against a few of the rules. Post 99 was an attempt to explain the protections, but I can see how I made it harder to understand and how I contridicted my own rules. The whole idea of the protection was to recruit other players onto a team.

Please keep in mind this part of post 99:

If the rebels and the wiseguy protect the same person there is no protection. If the rebels protect the Don or a wiseguy, there is no protection. There will be no double agents. No player that was a wiseguy will return as a rebel and no rebel will return as a wiseguy. They may return to their original "team" or be citizens. They will not turn. The Don, the wiseguys, and the rebels will return from protection if their own team selected them or if bala sselected them.

So the protection rules stated in post 99 where anyone can be protected stands.

I have not been telling players they are being protected.

 

[Coler]

Okay, the Bala ate some bad Rb and is a little out of his mind.

LOL

 

[johnlarson66]

Okay, the Bala ate some bad Rb and is a little out of his mind.

Seems that post 99 goes against a few of the rules. Post 99 was an attempt to explain the protections, but I can see how I made it harder to understand and how I contridicted my own rules. The whole idea of the protection was to recruit other players onto a team.

Please keep in mind this part of post 99:

If the rebels and the wiseguy protect the same person there is no protection. If the rebels protect the Don or a wiseguy, there is no protection. There will be no double agents. No player that was a wiseguy will return as a rebel and no rebel will return as a wiseguy. They may return to their original "team" or be citizens. They will not turn. The Don, the wiseguys, and the rebels will return from protection if their own team selected them or if bala sselected them.

So the protection rules stated in post 99 where anyone can be protected stands.

I have not been telling players they are being protected.

Even in post 99, I contridict myself. If the wiseguys wish to protect the Don they can. Anyone can be protected. They will show as a citizen and return after the next nightfall.

 

[maverickbr77]

thanks for the clarification JL

 

[Luvbugz]

So JL just confirmed what I have been trying to say. Zig COULD be mucs that the mucs fully intented to protect from the get go!!

 

[The Zigman]

Okay, the Bala ate some bad Rb and is a little out of his mind.

Seems that post 99 goes against a few of the rules. Post 99 was an attempt to explain the protections, but I can see how I made it harder to understand and how I contridicted my own rules. The whole idea of the protection was to recruit other players onto a team.

Please keep in mind this part of post 99:



So the protection rules stated in post 99 where anyone can be protected stands.

I have not been telling players they are being protected.

Well well well...

 

[jpappy789]

I was trying to get some sorta conversation started. Pretty much everyone went quiet. Plant hasn't even responded to my posting. Voting is all over the place. I think it is 2 for Kash, 1 for DD, and 1 for Coler if I am right?

You, Jpap said Plant and Kash were your top suspects. Z points out the fact that Plant could have known Zig was protected which is why she voted for him in the first place. Not to mention yesterday she makes a case for a whole different person, but votes the complete opposite way. This theory actually looked plausible to me, so I went with it trying to get some input, but now I am suscipious?? I think the mucs have completely turned us against one another. They are probably sitting back laughing while we fight amongst ourselves. How many citizens have we lost??

Once again, plant would need to be psychic in order to protect Zig. And honestly, of all people, why him?

Right out of Nightfall Pappy says I give him a bad feeling. Then says quick votes are not good right now which seems to be addressed to me.

But here he defends us as having the same suspects ( which several others have as well)

Here he says he doesn't know whether I am being truthful, or if Plant or Kash are truthful.

Here he says we can't be on the same team with Plant (which is ridiculous).

Lastly he says I need watching even though we all should be watching everyone anyways.

Ok so I won't have much time online today I am afraid, hopefully I can get back in tonight before Night. I was looking back over Plant, Mostly, and Zig's posts because of the increased focus on me Today. I was trying to convince myself which of these could be a Rebel, but I kept bringing myself back to OMGUS logic, and I do not want to place a vote with that mindset. What I saw was actually something not really even on my radar at the time.

Several people have tried to connect me and Pappy as a team, and I haven't seen it. I do agree with some of what he has said and it seems he has agreed with me, but I would hope co-Citizens would have the same thoughts. Instead what I saw (bolded above) is a pattern of Pappy defending me or disagreeing with those posting things about me, followed by subtle nudges that I can't be trusted or am otherwise suspicious. Pappy is IMO a very good player and this is something that will not be noticed reading each post in its place in the thread, but when assembled all together they seem to be ever-so-subtly pushing me forward as a suspect.

I vote to lynch JPappy.

Odd. Yes we have agreed and disagreed with each other but I don't see how that makes me suspicious. Z, you cannot deny that you have fooled people in the past which is why you make me nervous. You play a very good evil bt I cannot be sure of it this time around because there really isn't anything to push me that way, yet. I have not named you as a suspect but with you and plant bickering earlier I am having a hard time following who is telling the truth. Can ya blame me?

Okay, the Bala ate some bad Rb and is a little out of his mind.

Seems that post 99 goes against a few of the rules. Post 99 was an attempt to explain the protections, but I can see how I made it harder to understand and how I contridicted my own rules. The whole idea of the protection was to recruit other players onto a team.

Please keep in mind this part of post 99:



So the protection rules stated in post 99 where anyone can be protected stands.

I have not been telling players they are being protected.

:wall:

So Dawg may have been correct on Kashta being rebel scum and protected by her team. Which makes this very confusing.

If Kashta is a rebel, more likely than not her team is protecting her. I am also thinking that the wg is trying to recruit her, which I hope, because if she is lynched then she doesn't go towards either team. The best situation would be that the wg is protecting her and the rebels aren't, but that probably would only happen if she was just a citizen so in that case we would gain a wg but still leave the same rebels...