Mafia #70: The Time Vortex

[the wizard]

I have absolutely nothing to hide. I already said I was thinking out loud. When I posted that I thought I might be able to make it a coin flip. I went back and looked at the latest vote count and any subsequent votes, realized I couldn't make it a tie, but switched my vote (too late) anyway. I wasn't asking anyone in particular. To me, you are all scum (even though I know there are likely only 2 scum left). Why are you so hung up on this? are you expecting me to give you a different answer? If so, you'll be sorely disappointed as I'm just telling you the truth and that's not going to change.

The only thing I am hung up on LR is inconsistencies and contradictions.

I have been going through D1 and questioning the things that stick out to me. What's the matter? Isn't that what we're supposed to do?

Why does the questioning get you to state that we are all scum?

 

[Kashta]

Okay hang on. I have to correct two things I posted earlier.

In this post, it was me who got the role labels down backwards. So that's my goof.... not Pappy's.

At the bottom of the post, switch the roles around between these two: Lone CIA Agent and Exorcist. That gets rid of the (possible) disparity thinking the CIA person was searching for demonic souls. It is consistent with that other game for the exorcist to seek out and kill demons. So the lone CIA agent was the one who opted not to send in a hit at all.

Sorry for mixing that up... it's been a long day and I was tired. Got lost in my own notes a few times and when I started over, I didn't go back to Pappy's actual nightfall posts again.

Mafia Day 1 Roles and Powers

Scum #1 Lone KGB Agent -- Could kill. Could not communicate.
Scum #2 Demonic Soul -- (What were they doing? Pappy didn't tell us.)
Scum #3 Demonic Soul -- (What were they doing? Pappy didn't tell us.)

Hits? - At least 1 from what we saw.
Invests? - We don't know.
Turn Someone? - That's what demons did in Game 56. They communicated and were team building/recruiting teammates.
Communicate? - Demons yes... KGB agent(s) no.

HN was lynched and Pappy said he was mafia... but he didn't tell us if HN was the KGB agent or one of the demonic souls.

Town Day 1 Roles and Powers

Town #1 Exorcist -- Could kill. Pappy said the person was "searching for demonic souls."
Town #2 Lone CIA Agent -- Could also kill but didn't.
Town #3 Journalist -- Could investigate Day 1, got invest results back before nightfall, and could publish headline.

Hits? - At least 2 hits. One successful, the second wasn't submitted.
Invests? - At least 1 because the headline clears Rbishop.
Turn Someone? - Apparently not (?)... none of those roles could turn people in Game 56.
Communicate? - I don't think so... none of those roles communicated with anyone in Game 56.

That shows the correct placement according to Pappy's nightfall posts

Yes, in Game 56 I had to submit a headline on Night 1 but had nothing I could tell anyone. I didn't get invest results until after nightfall was over and that didn't show up in the headline until the following day. Every invest I sent in was one game day behind.

There's the other mistake. That last line should have read:

"Every newspaper headline I sent in was one game day behind."

 

[the wizard]

I am glad we nailed a scumbag the first night, but the UD's really hurt.

I'll post some more thoughts a little later. Need to review.

Charlie, You posted this early Sat. morning.

Did you Have any thoughts yet?

You have a grand total of 13 posts after 3 1/2 days of game play.

Are you going to at least try to look like you are helping the town?

 

[Kashta]

It's the way you were pushing so hard that everyone needed to see that it was that game was suspicious to me...........

I have to agree with this. I know it's been answered by Lady G and both her and Noods have gone back and forth on similar points a few times. Pappy didn't tell us enough during Day 1 for us to determine which game we were in. And when I asked him about it in the game, he wouldn't tell us. Then I even went searching old games and suggested two possibilities myself, but couldn't be sure of it and I gave up on that. I also remember Dawg did the same thing trying to figure this out. But Lady G did seem to push one game over the others and that still doesn't fit right as far as I'm concerned.

Noods, just something for you to think about I will drop it after this ok.

Lets say I was evil ok, if I were I would of known the "code" words. Now, IF I were evil do you think I would of made a post with two of the words in it, knowing in the end it would be figured out? I know the words are NOT your actual reason for voting me at least that is the way I take this post. My point is if I were evil would I of done that? Think about it Noods.
Now as I said I will drop it, just wanted you to think about this fact

This post also stands out to me.

Lady G,... yes. Despite the fact that you addressed this question to Noods and not me... I must tell you yes it's entirely possible that you would've used code words openly like it's been suggested you may have done.

You weren't in Game 56 and according to other posts you've made that isn't a game you'd even read before.

One of the players in this game who also played (or followed) that one would have remembered it was using those stupid code words so openly that exposed the entire KGB team and that's what lead to their downfall. As soon as it came out that code words were buried in the thread, it was plain to see exactly who they were. But that's because those roles and conditions continued day after day. It wasn't a quick one-time thing.

So yes, absolutely. If you are scum (which you already know I suspected you were before nightfall happened) and if you received a mafia role assignment telling you to use code words as some kind of signal between non-communicators... and since you (by your own admission) knew nothing about Game 56, then yes... you wouldn't have known how risky it might be to use the code words Pappy gave you without being more cautious about it. You also knew the KGB Agent mafia role was just for one day and your scum role would have other powers associated with it with the next PM you received on Day 2.

 

[Kashta]

So are you saying that we can't really use anything we may or may not have learned from night 1 since we don't know the rules and the circumstances surrounding the release of information? If so, that sucks, but I see what you're saying. We can't be sure Rb is innocent.

I do think we can assume that HN was not the KBG agent, or not the ONLY KGB agent.

I could see the scum having more power the first night simply because if there were only 3 of them they are a very low percentage of the town. Abnormally low percentage. I could see jpap giving them more power night 1 for that reason. I would not be surprised if the scum get a turn or two this next nightfall.

That's what this amounts to... yes.

No matter how many variables we consider, we have no way of knowing which parts of each of these games Pappy decided to use, which parts he decided not to use, or which parts he modified to better fit this game's format and scenario.

 

[Kashta]

I was thinking about this part Kash. Is is possible Pap gave someone the journalist role for that "game set up" only? I mean obviously he gave it to someone, but wouldn't that role gone now? Who's to say Rb didn't get that role and post that knowing the role would be gone after nightfall and took advantage of the chance to put his name out that as an innocent? Did the Mod have to post what you wanted or did your post have to be true?

Green - Sure. Game 56 was our time travel destination for Day 1 only. It's Day 2 now and we're in a different game... meaning the 6 PR roles have been given different powers.

Red - That's a point I had considered until now. But no.. I don't see it happening that way. If Rbishop was mafia and in that role he had an opportunity to make himself appear innocent by using the headline that way... then maybe. But that journalist role was a townie PR role. So no, I think it would be highly unwise for Rb as a townie to do that... unless he wanted to make a target of himself to either get killed or turned.

Blue - I had carte blanche to publish anything I wanted to tell the town in that role. My only limitation was it had to be 10 words or less. So yes, I could have lied about anything if I wanted to mislead the town. My first headlines (while still an innocent PR) did help the town and that gave them credibility. Then I got turned to the demon's team right away. I still chose to publish true headlines even after I was evil, I just directed the town to lynch the whole KGB team one after the other to get rid of them and protect my fellow demon teammates. The repeated use of code words in the thread already allowed me to do that. And I used my power of investigation to help the demons find more townies to recruit.

 

[jbradt]

Rather than pulling a bunch of posts and commenting individually, I'm going to again go for the summary...

Codewords: I don't buy into the codewords thing. I think Jpap is smart enough to have changed them if they were used in this game. Possibly the agent names too, so I'm not putting any stock in the "fish/rat" theory at all.

Headline: I don't think Pappy would have given someone the journalist role without giving them some way to actually give reliable info to the town. Since the headline was given in the same post discussing the CIA agent, I'm willing to assume he's a good guy and would not post BS to the town. What I'm saying here is I'm leaning RB innocent at this point... as much as it hurts a little to do it.

Players:

Fishfriend - leaning FF slightly innocent atm. he went after HN and voted early, and he seems to be really trying to help the town.

Lady G - I vote to lynch Lady G. I'm not pulling any specific posts because it's more about patterns with her. She posts ad nauseum about figuring out what game day it is, while at the same time saying it shouldn't be our sole focus. Her accusatory posts to other players are basically regurgitated from things already said by other players. I'm just not buying the whole "look how stereotypical I am... blond and confused ". You may be blond Lady G, but I don't think you're half as confused as you want us to think. And heck, you basically dared me to, so... . I'm all about making people happy too!!!

Lab_rat - Labby seems helpful thus far. I can see the before nightfall "polling the town" being an innocent Labby trying to get thoughts out there before taking action. It wouldn't be the first time this sort of thing made her a suspect. For now I'm still willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.

ZSandmann - Ogre's sure. I'm not so sure, but will keep looking.

Hooked Newbie - just had to keep him on the list for town bragging privileges. We got one! :headbang2::thm::dance:


Kashta - Kash seems really helpful. Leaning innocent for the time being.

The Wizard - I'm questioning my stance on Wiz at this point. He seems to have started the bush kicking he was talking about earlier. Still high on the list, but waivering.

Ogre - I'm not sure what to make of Ogre. I agree with a lot of what he's saying, but the post about Zsand makes me queasy.

I don't see my vote on LG moving. She's so scummy she's leaving a trail. Zsand and Wiz are probably the next 2 on the list. Not sure what order I'd put them in.

 

[Rbishop]

Didn't you say earlier that Wizard and I were the highest suspects?

How do you figure if I or Z are mafia the other must be?

No, he didn't say that Lady...

 

[Rbishop]

Yep, you did say that.
Do you still feel John is up there also? How about Noods, Zaff?


Then BAM outta no where Z is mafia, 100% So what changed your mind?

You need to read the Ogre quote that you pulled...

Originally Posted by OgreMkV
So here's a couple of questions:

Did hooked switch off Wiz to protect him and then back on when it was obvious to everyone that HN was the lynch target (again to protect Wiz)?

There are five players with multiple votes whose votes never landed on Hooked: LadyG, Zsand, John, Zaffy, Noods

Communication:
Now, I'm assuming that the mafia can communicate. Of course, I hadn't considered this until just an hour or so ago, but even if they couldn't communicate, then they should still know who each other is.

SO, was there an effort to save hooked newbie?

I had prepared some thoughts on the concerted effort to save Wiz, when hooked turned out innocent, but since he's mafia, was there any effort to save him?
I don't really see one. Everyone who voted for hook, stayed there.

At this point, The Wizard is highly suspicious, but is it really just saving his own rump, or was it throwing HN under the bus?

So, my top suspects are (not necessarily in this order): TheWiz, Zsand, John, LadyG, Noods, Zaffy.

Unfortunately, I can't really think of anything to ask that would help me decide right now.

 

[Rbishop]

Ogre is just feeling Z a better canidate right now for a lynch based on his experience of playing with him. You, Wiz, JL, Noods and Zaffy are on his top suspect list.

Ogre sees that several of us have or are leaning towards a vote on you so he stated he would be okay with a vote off between you two if the town decides to go that way.