Mafia #70: The Time Vortex

[Rbishop]

..and I do think Z's play this game is characteristic of what Ogre states...Ogre has been very good at nailing Z's roles in these games...wish I could be that perceptive.

Kash..your posts bring up some good points....but a thought has occurred to me..imagine that....

From jpap's rules....

SETUP

The abilities of the scum and power roles vary based on which setup each day is based on. Players chosen to have a specific role will be PMed by me at the beginning of the day with instructions as to what they can do given their new "identity" within the time period. Innocent townies remain innocent townies for the entire round. Mafia will be able to hit, recruit, invest, etc. while town power roles may have the ability to invest, protect, hit, etc. Remember that everything is based on previous formats. I will provide a brief description of the time period the town is stuck in for the game days, which have all been predetermined by me.

I underlined several phrases. If I had written that, I know what I would have been meaning and I wouldn't have made it clearer, leaving the players guessing or assuming at their own risk.

To me, it means we will be stuck in certain games with certain power roles going on.

IT DOES NOT MEAN...that all power roles will be used, or that there might be more....IT ALSO DOES NOT MEAN their abilities will be the same at the same point of the day, as that game used them.

As for the headline, I kind of thought it a signal from jpap where the game might be going next....as Kash noted, the journalist was usually a day behind...but sometimes that role has been used by mods to get info out to the town.

 

[OgreMkV]

This was when I voted for Z



Now, please show me where I didn't include a single reason for voting Zsand.



I gave a reason, actually I gave another one at the very beginning of the day when I said that the multiple voters that didn't vote HN would be the top of my suspect list.

I don't understand why your pushing me so hard on the JB, if you disagree... fine. I don't care. But don't say I didn't give reasons when I did. I gave two reasons. Both that are very logical. Now, I expect at least an acknowledgment of these reasons and some kind of statement admitting that I gave the reasons previously.

Now, for all that, I don't think you're mafia JB. I'd be willing to put money on the possibility that our final two mafia re Zsand and LadyG.

Hmmmm, anyone else see how he "didn't until now suspect me?

I would like to know what others think about someone saying this much about someone then posting the last post. This is why my vote is on him[/QUOTE]

G, you're jumping all over me for voting Zsand based on WHAT YOU THINK I SAID (which isn't what I said).

Then you vote for me based on that...

You're doing the exact same thing that you think I'm doing, so how does that help your case?

I'll point out that I have two reasons over and above my 'gut' feeling to vote Zsand.

You have 'Ogre's vote is scummy' to summarize.

Why are defending Z so much?

 

[Madcrawdad]

So you're sure I'm scum because I ran short on time and thought out loud before trying to change my vote? I am a bit disappointed in you there Mad, that's a pretty lame reason to vote for me. Did you think my reason for voting for ILM was lame? Do you not find LG suspect?

You're disappointed? C'mon, as already pointed out by Wiz...thinking out loud on your keyboard? I got burned last game when I gave you slack on D2, due to your real life excuses. Won't happen again.

As far as voting ILM....it was lame. You've played with the guy, so you had to know that your vote wouldn't pressure him into playing. You also had to have had an idea he was going to UD. Looks like you may have thought it a safe place to hold your vote.

Regarding LG, I've already said that we don't know who was communicating on D1, so I'm hesitant to go down that road yet because of 'RAT' and then 'fish'.

That very first line of this post just drives me nuts.

Zsand... you were the Lead Demon in that game and your role and the team you built won that game. To accomplish that feat you FALSE role-claimed being an Archangel (of all things) which didn't exist, and had the dead-but-resurrected-yet-demonic town Mayor (Jpappy himself) corroborate all those lies as though they were true.

With your knowledge of all the format, roles, and powers/abilities....... is this seriously all you feel worthwhile to contribute about it now for everyone in this game?

Right or wrong.. other people who played that game (JL and Dawg for example) have at least tried to offer suggestions for us to consider. And all you've come up with was a simple statement to say it made sense to you?

This post strengthens the case against Z, IMO, and if I were to switch it would likely be to Z.

 

[noodles62]

g/o morning. I have not yet had the chance to get my laptop looked at/fixed and this morning I am greeted with the "noise" much louder. so I may not be on here as much as I like. :cry: g/o

Based on the above crappy little piece of my life, I retract my vote for Lady G and vote to lynch Zsand. As things progress I am beginning to not be so sure about LG being scum and I feel stronger about Z. I would like to see a race between the two but do feel stronger about Z. Ogre is "certain" he is scum and I am inclined to believe him. More later, I hope. I need coffee. :coffee:

 

[noodles62]

oh wow. did not see the two latest posts while I was typing....seems there are quite a few now that suspect Z......

 

[noodles62]

g/o morning. I have not yet had the chance to get my laptop looked at/fixed and this morning I am greeted with the "noise" much louder. so I may not be on here as much as I like. :cry: g/o

Based on the above crappy little piece of my life, I retract my vote for Lady G and vote to lynch Zsand. As things progress I am beginning to not be so sure about LG being scum and I feel stronger about Z. I would like to see a race between the two but do feel stronger about Z. Ogre is "certain" he is scum and I am inclined to believe him. More later, I hope. I need coffee. :coffee:

c

oh, really quick, to clarify. No, I am not voting for Z just because "Ogre says he is scum". I have stated my feelings on Z previously and his continued absence and no substantial input has further solidified my suspisions.

 

[noodles62]

This makes sense to me.

I think this is the best thing that I've read about code words. IF they are in fact being used, it's the how/why that is important. I'm not seeing it.

I'm not sold on this. Also, I think that for JL to have this as his only reason for the vote isn't like him.

Why? I think that it looks like just-before-night speculation, but am curious as to what's not sitting right (and not just because I'm quoted).

I hate this post. It's way too based on gut, not logic, which is decidedly not like you, Ogre.

Hate the idea of calling attention to prs. Why even bring it up? If you're trying to protect our good prs, isn't it best to completely avoid any mention of them at all? Why not just call all scum, scum and leave our helper out of it? icky.

see above commentary - still icky.


I don't like how you're trying to make it look like Mad was pushing for Wiz, when I can't even see how you would think that. He's the reason I switched to HN, who he made a pretty good case for.

Totally doesn't sound like you. What's wrong? Even the Mafia-Meter had numbers AND some explanation. Also, don't make it look like you're not good at reading people (or not good at this game) - it doesn't suit you.

This seems more sane, helpful even. It worries me, because you have completely snowed me before when mafia.

Looking at the "lone" voters (even on ILM), I thought that I agreed with whoever else it was that said it probably leaned players innocent - lone voters get looked at way too hard, even on day 1. BUT that reason [of Z's] sucks.

Fire, you have pointed out posts from others that you "Hate" or find "Icky" but do you have any thoughts or suspicions on anyone?

 

[noodles62]

Well, apparently several think I was "pushing" it. I guess I just really thought I was right. Again, sorry...I was wrong

My perception is that you were pushing so hard to keep our attention from finding the true game so you and your team could do your little dance unnoticed.....

I keep wavering on my level of suspicion on you. Right now my vote is on Z but I really hope it winds up a race between the two of you because you are both at the top of the chart for me......

 

[dirtydawg10]

Dawg, mad... thoughts on Z (I think mad you commented on Z or was it John)?

I can see that Z's game does seem strange and not very helpful at this point. I actually tend to agree with Mad at this point believe it or not. I'm not ready to vote him yet based on what I see. I do see that Ogre has said he IS mafia which I originally saw and wondered about but I wasn't sure if you actually knew or were just doing it for dramatic effect.

Dawg, you started the whole "race" for me and Mad because you said we used the word fish...then Mad started questioning you about it. You then changed to Mad because he "pushed" for JB to change his vote. Weren't you late on Hooked? I have to look back and see when you actually voted him.

Ogre, you started with Wizard was highest suspect adding me, noods, john, and Z. You then turned to Z is mafia, and I am high suspect or what ever. You were first on Wizard and stayed there right. What thoughts did you have on Hooked, have to go back and look.

I'm thinking my thoughts on Wizard are wrong, and at this time am going to lean him more innocent.

Ok, actually looking back...these are the posts I was thinking of. After re-reading them now though, I don't see it. If Dawg was trying to rally for others to switch to Wiz, yes...but the fact he added "I'm expecting a vote to come at some point" really takes the thought away from me.
At this point, I'm not seeing Dawg as scummy either.

I guess you answered your own question LG.

Here's what I would like to comment on. It was Kash's very insightful post. I cut it down because it was so long and only talked about the portions I was interested in...

My interpetation, though, is Pappy used the word "lone" as a hint that this scum person was non-communicating mafia. (Game 56 had multiple KGB agents using code words to communicate in the thread, so the non-communicating part would also be consistent with that game.) Still, the word "lone" seems to suggest this evil was working independently from the other 2 scum. Keep that thought for a moment... there's more.

Here's the town's first of two hit attempts. (Demonic souls were evils in Game 56 and the good guys were Exorcists.) But notice the fact that a townie is looking for demonic souls.... plural, not singular. If that's the case (and not a typo from Pappy), then we were dealing with 1 KGB agent and 2 demonic souls.

Mafia Day 1 Roles and Powers

Scum #1 Lone KGB Agent -- Could kill. Could not communicate.
Scum #2 Demonic Soul -- (What were they doing? Pappy didn't tell us.)
Scum #3 Demonic Soul -- (What were they doing? Pappy didn't tell us.)

I read this and began to agree with you Kash. Then I thought a bit more about it and the original game and here's my comments. I am guessing JPap used the word "lone" because in the original game the KGB agents were on their own. The other thing is that half were assassins and half were investigators. So this could have been the "lone" KGB assassin. Also in that game there was only one demon, I believe, who could turn people to their side so I'm guessing only one demon in this setup. Here's what I'm thinking the roles were...

Scum #1 KGB Assassin -- Could kill. Could not communicate.
Scum #2 KGB Investigator -- Could investigate. Could not communicate.
Scum #3 Demonic Soul -- Could recruit a teammate. Could not communicate.

The other change from this setup compared to the original I believe JPap would have made is that the Demon and KGB were on the same team. In the original game they were on separate teams but that wouldn't make sense in this setup to have them against each other. With only having 3 people it wouldn't make sense that they were against each other. The demon may have also had the same list of code words. Just my 2 cents. I still think LG is the best place for my vote right now.

 

[Lady G]

I have to agree with this. I know it's been answered by Lady G and both her and Noods have gone back and forth on similar points a few times. Pappy didn't tell us enough during Day 1 for us to determine which game we were in. And when I asked him about it in the game, he wouldn't tell us. Then I even went searching old games and suggested two possibilities myself, but couldn't be sure of it and I gave up on that. I also remember Dawg did the same thing trying to figure this out. But Lady G did seem to push one game over the others and that still doesn't fit right as far as I'm concerned.



This post also stands out to me.

Lady G,... yes. Despite the fact that you addressed this question to Noods and not me... I must tell you yes it's entirely possible that you would've used code words openly like it's been suggested you may have done.

You weren't in Game 56 and according to other posts you've made that isn't a game you'd even read before.

One of the players in this game who also played (or followed) that one would have remembered it was using those stupid code words so openly that exposed the entire KGB team and that's what lead to their downfall. As soon as it came out that code words were buried in the thread, it was plain to see exactly who they were. But that's because those roles and conditions continued day after day. It wasn't a quick one-time thing.

So yes, absolutely. If you are scum (which you already know I suspected you were before nightfall happened) and if you received a mafia role assignment telling you to use code words as some kind of signal between non-communicators... and since you (by your own admission) knew nothing about Game 56, then yes... you wouldn't have known how risky it might be to use the code words Pappy gave you without being more cautious about it. You also knew the KGB Agent mafia role was just for one day and your scum role would have other powers associated with it with the next PM you received on Day 2.

Ok, I seemed to push that game as I said and will say again I really thought I figured it out. I did fit for me and I thought I was right.

Yes, that was addressed to Noods but anyone is welcome to question me on any post that is fine. I know I haven't really played many games with you but really NO I would of never done that. I didn't have any real reason to worry about being lynched and if I were evil, yes I would of known that set up would be over soon and I would most likely find out who was on my team no need to be so obvious IMO.

Green - Sure. Game 56 was our time travel destination for Day 1 only. It's Day 2 now and we're in a different game... meaning the 6 PR roles have been given different powers.

Red - That's a point I had considered until now. But no.. I don't see it happening that way. If Rbishop was mafia and in that role he had an opportunity to make himself appear innocent by using the headline that way... then maybe. But that journalist role was a townie PR role. So no, I think it would be highly unwise for Rb as a townie to do that... unless he wanted to make a target of himself to either get killed or turned.

Blue - I had carte blanche to publish anything I wanted to tell the town in that role. My only limitation was it had to be 10 words or less. So yes, I could have lied about anything if I wanted to mislead the town. My first headlines (while still an innocent PR) did help the town and that gave them credibility. Then I got turned to the demon's team right away. I still chose to publish true headlines even after I was evil, I just directed the town to lynch the whole KGB team one after the other to get rid of them and protect my fellow demon teammates. The repeated use of code words in the thread already allowed me to do that. And I used my power of investigation to help the demons find more townies to recruit.

Ok, thank you that makes since to me.