Mafia #98: The Grinch Returns -- The Play

sorry i havent been able to get on much. christmas shopping is hectic! i dont know if we are going shopping today or not but i should have a little time. i just got caught up and find it interesting that jpap says that he doesnt like to make random votes and likes to have a reason but then is attacking lg bc she didnt say it was random, and gave a reason. might not mean anything at all but it stuck out to me.
 
Well, I am caught up now (yay) looking at the votes for 2H, ok I can see a vote from someone on him for the "Rich is unlynchable" comment...but for him to get lynched for it makes it look like people were looking for a easy vote and took it. Rich is a hard on to get a read on in ALL games and I can see what he was saying, even if you do pick up on something...getting others to see it is always difficult.
 
This is 2Hs vote. Not all that scummy a reason to vote, considering that it was day 1 and an early vote. I saw a decent number of far worse reasons to vote (OMGUS, Just cause, ext) but no one else was targeted.

DD votes for a fluff reason. It's a wonder that people went after Dun when they had this to argue about.

Then Ice votes FOR THE SAME REASON. And still no one noticed? It was quite some time after the original vote by DD, so perhaps it was only noticed if you're reading back.

Now we have Pappy. He votes 2H for the same reason as DD and Ice. That reason is starting to get a little old...

And now Wizard. For the same reason. At this point I would have called a BS on the reason, it wasn't a good one and I think that DD (being scum) pulled it up in the hopes of getting a train. Perhaps Ice then pulled it back up later (when they felt it was safe to do so). Failed again, so Pappy did it too.


Now, look a the votes. DD goes first, then Ice ties it up with Dun again, then later Wiz ties it with Dun again. Seems to me like they either really wanted 2H out or 2 of them are evil. IMHO, Ice and Wiz are more likely evil, with Dun as the third CE. That would explain why Wiz and Ice wanted Dun not to get lynched. They and DD all tied it up with votes on Dun. The reason Pappy isn't on my evil list is because Pappy voted before Rich, so it would have kept the tie, thus not needing a vote on 2H to save Dun. Naturally, Dun would save himself, so as long as there was a tie he was safe. While this is a somewhat unlikely story, it could be explained if Dun is, say, the Grinch. Needless to say, I think that all three of them are the remaining evils.

On that note, I vote to lynch Dun.

FF...

DD placed what seems to be a joke vote while my vote was nowhere near that...yes, we voted because of the same word ("unlynchable") but there was actual reasoning behind my vote. Like I said before my reasoning is when I voted. I do not understand why an innocent would blatantly say they were voting for someone just because they do not get lynched often.

Isn't being "busy'' a good way to fly under the radar? If this had been brought up later in the game it might have been a valid point, but since it was in D1 is it not valid. Seems a bit of a double standard IMO. In reality FF is the only one who knows if he is truly busy are not, the rest of us can just speculate that he either is or is not.
This stuck out to me because you jump on Dun for IMPLYING FF isn't busy, do you in fact know that he is, thus making a possibly false implication worthy of a vote?

This post stuck out to me because Rich seemed to know right off the bat who the hit was, while seemingly the rest of the town was in confusion about if it was a frosty or Grinch hit.





The timing and content of these posts stuck out to me, they are possibly coincidental notable none the less.

Bally, where is this confusion over who put the hit on DD? I don't see it. I thought it was pretty obvious that it was the scum based on the write up and the fact that only one hit was used and it was D1.
sorry i havent been able to get on much. christmas shopping is hectic! i dont know if we are going shopping today or not but i should have a little time. i just got caught up and find it interesting that jpap says that he doesnt like to make random votes and likes to have a reason but then is attacking lg bc she didnt say it was random, and gave a reason. might not mean anything at all but it stuck out to me.

Close, but not quite what I said. I wouldn't throw out a random vote if I can help it but I have in the past. Certainly if I only have minutes before nightfall and i haven't read the thread then I would likely do so just to save my butt...I'd take the repercussions later if need be. LG's vote struck me as odd, so I questioned it.
 
Okay, I have something to say in relation to Rich being unlynchable. He pretty much is. Last game, when he was evil, I couldn't find a single reason to vote him all game long. whenever I can invest someone, I always check him in the first few days of the game. He's probably one of the best at not being readable. I do not fully understand why 2H was lynched over something like that, it was day one and his reason was better then mine (because UN needed a vote). That's just my opinion on it.

This is 2Hs vote. Not all that scummy a reason to vote, considering that it was day 1 and an early vote. I saw a decent number of far worse reasons to vote (OMGUS, Just cause, ext) but no one else was targeted.

DD votes for a fluff reason. It's a wonder that people went after Dun when they had this to argue about.

Then Ice votes FOR THE SAME REASON. And still no one noticed? It was quite some time after the original vote by DD, so perhaps it was only noticed if you're reading back.

Now we have Pappy. He votes 2H for the same reason as DD and Ice. That reason is starting to get a little old...

And now Wizard. For the same reason. At this point I would have called a BS on the reason, it wasn't a good one and I think that DD (being scum) pulled it up in the hopes of getting a train. Perhaps Ice then pulled it back up later (when they felt it was safe to do so). Failed again, so Pappy did it too.



Now, look a the votes. DD goes first, then Ice ties it up with Dun again, then later Wiz ties it with Dun again. Seems to me like they either really wanted 2H out or 2 of them are evil. IMHO, Ice and Wiz are more likely evil, with Dun as the third CE. That would explain why Wiz and Ice wanted Dun not to get lynched. They and DD all tied it up with votes on Dun. The reason Pappy isn't on my evil list is because Pappy voted before Rich, so it would have kept the tie, thus not needing a vote on 2H to save Dun. Naturally, Dun would save himself, so as long as there was a tie he was safe. While this is a somewhat unlikely story, it could be explained if Dun is, say, the Grinch. Needless to say, I think that all three of them are the remaining evils.

On that note, I vote to lynch Dun.

I will explain why I voted 2H though you pulled my post which explains it then you twisted it to say I voted for the same reason as DD.

I voted 2H because it seemed like he was trying to get Rich lynched by putting it out that he is hard to read. Why mention that fact and vote it unless you are hoping others follow? No way in hell the same reasoning as DD who voted for making her look to see if unlynchable was a word. Sorry but putting out feelers for votes to get a good player lynched is more worthy then any other singleton joke votes I had seen.

Now for your crazy theory.

Number 1 my post was posted 4 minutes after Dawgs, so I didn't know he had voted Dun. But lets just say I did. Why go to 2H? I could have voted UN and put him ahead instead of pushing a tie. You say Pappy isn't on your list but you have your facts wrong there too. Pappys vote put 2H in the lead and Rich tied it back up. You have it backwards.
Answer me this also, why would us 3 if we were all evil need to vote 2H to save Dun? Wouldn't it be more proactive for us to pile on Kash or Dawg or someone that is harder to fool? I like that you are putting thoughts out there but I just wanted to show your holes.


Also after thinking about it LGs vote while it end up on an evil doesn't mean anything. I do agree with Rich though that it was just a UD saver.

I'm also a bit confused on why anyone would even wonder about the hit being from scum or Frosty etc... It said scum lurking. Usually those pretending to be confused are the ones that took the shot. That would be: Dun UN and Bally


I still don't believe UNs comment about talking about roles meaning scum. I think he forgot innocents all got minor roles.
 
1. 2H's lynch vote for someone unlynchable thing was garbage. I agreed with the comments already posted but didn't comment further because it was already addressed. What hadn't been said yet (unless I missed it) was suggesting we lynch a player like Rich for a nonsense reason when it was equally possible Rich wasn't evil.... in which case that would hurt the town and greatly help the scum by eliminating the need to kill him themselves and possibly them not needing to invest him.

2. I read the stuff about Dun too and can see the concern about him contradicting himself by using one reason to vote (UN) which also applied to someone he didn't vote (FF) for the same reason. That's usually a good scum tell. Dun's vote just struck me as sincere more than sneaky. I felt the reason Dun gave for voting UN was probably honest. Didn't think he realized at the time of his vote that his reason for UN also applied to FF. Not great logic, of course, but it seemed truthful.... possibly because it was contradictory, which seemed true rather than contrived.

I didn't vote Rich or 2H. While I thought their choices were ill-advised, that doesn't always mean evil. In the end, I decided to break the tie to see if I could shake things up a little with just about 2 hours before nightfall. That seemed the best idea to me since others didn't seem to want to stick their necks out and risk drawing attention.

That put my pick between UN, Dun, and 2H. I settled on UN mainly because he OMGUSSed his vote on FF. JV players KNOW everyone looks at OMGUS votes as a possible scumtell... but they tend to do it anyway - and even call attention to it. Basically, I voted UN for being petty (no personal offense intended, UN) and unhelpful.... possibly being anti-game. He's the one who told us it was OMGUSSy but seemed to expect that to be acceptable simply because he mentioned the OMGUS word before anyone else did. Overall, that gave the impression he picked an easy place to vote without expecting to get looked at for it... instead of actually trying to help us.

1st I think my reasoning was that reason. You can't just assume Rich is evil and by 2H posting what he posted it seemed like he was trying to get us to line up and lynch Rich because its hard to do so later.

Now if the reason was so garbage why did that put your pick between 2H Dun and UN?

I find your post to be a lot of contradiction 2of the 3 people you named as possible votes had reasons posted by you why you didn't vote them. According to the above post the only possible vote you could have made was UN.
 
Ice, I didn't put 2H in the lead. I tied 2H with UN after Kash initially broke the tie. Rich voted Dun which made it a 3-way tie again.

UN (2) - FF (#22), Dun (#87), Kash (#92)
FF (0) - UN (#58)
Dun (4) - AAF (#62), Dawg (#88), Rich (#97), UN (#115)
Pappy (0) - Rich (#67)
Rich (1) - 2H (#71)
2H (5) - DD (#73), Ice (#89), Pappy (#96), Wiz (#116), Dun (#132)
DD (2) - Bally (#76), LG (#129)
LG (0) - Wiz (#80)

Everyone has voted.

PMs as needed. Nightfall in about 1 minute.

Either way I don't necessarily agree with FF's theory.
 
Glad the scum killed their own. I'm going to have to go back and see if she said something to make them think she was worth killing.

Sorry 2H but I didn't have anything better at the time until UN posted about roles and it wouldn't have made a difference to vote him.




Not sure why it matters, she voted a NC evil elf. Better then most of us did.Can you explain you clarify your reasoning for the question?

I don't really buy the communicating scum role you said you meant. I think because you're scum you forgot the innocent elves all have minor roles

I vote to lynch UN

I asked her because it seemed like she posted in a rush right before nightfall, and I thought at the time that maybe she voted a team-mate because they were the first to come to mind (And it would also theoretically distance her from DD). I now realize that the scum hit their own player, so the connection no longer makes sense.
 
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