Mildly controversial topic, prestressing fish for shipping

smcsharry said:
So, I did a reread of your post. First off the video is very wrong, bottom line. Second I can see that you are trying to figure out how to breed and ship these great fish.
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Did you really? Perhaps read it again...?

jetajockey said:
Okay, so I think I stumbled onto a mildly controversial topic. Let me preface this with the concept that I apply when shipping certain species of corydoras. The black corys seem to be like several other species of cory, in that when they are stressed they release a toxin. Given that the packing/shipping is stressing in general, they end up releasing toxins in their small amount of water and end up poisoning themselves. So the method to avoid this? Stress them before packing, water change, and then pack them. So far this has worked pretty well, although I'm still leery about sending them via priority mail.

I made a video of me stressing a group prior to packing, and given that this is for entertainment purposes, I made it a bit dramatic. I normally don't go to this much effort, I just pull them from their tank, let them sit in a dip n pour, then change the water in it for fresh water after about 10 minutes, just prior to bagging.

And finally, let me once again emphasize that I really do love my fishies =]
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Many people have a very limited selection of fish in nearby stores, often of very poor health/condition. I think it's great that people are breeding fish for distribution. Coming from an island in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, I don't have many options for local breeders... :rolleyes: If we relied on big box lfs', we'd be overrun with red tailed sharks, common plecos and feeder comets stuck in 3g tanks. I don't think there's much of a future there.
 
All I can say is fish that kill themselves while being shipped should be not kept by people that require them to be shipped. I backed off, but that is really the bottom line.

I am not going to go deeper into this whole cycle.
 
smcsharry said:
All I can say is fish that kill themselves while being shipped should be not kept by people that require them to be shipped. I backed off, but that is really the bottom line.

I am not going to go deeper into this whole cycle.
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Hi again Harry. If that was the case then you could rule out all kinds of species that are difficult to ship. Talk to some importers and see what kind of losses they incur on large shipments.

And as an FYI, with these cories I actually bag them with double or even triple the amount of water that would normally go in the bag to ship a fish of similar size, as an added precaution. Because of this, I often end up undercharging on shipping costs and it takes a large portion of any money I do make selling them. But it's my choice, and I want them to get there as safely as possible. I even upgraded a purchase last week from priority to express (about 20 dollars more out of my pocket) just so the fish would get there overnight, as priority shipping this time of year really concerns me.

The basic concept here is to stress the fish slightly before bagging in order to get them to release toxins prior to bagging.

These fish get large water changes every 2-3 days, and both live and premium staple foods like NLS daily, so believe me, I take really good care of them, especially compared to the fish farms where most people's fish come from.

I understand your concern with shipping a fish that is difficult to ship, but these in particular are not fish you will find at nearly all LFS. You can barely even find them for sale online anywhere.

Agree or disagree, the basic concept behind the whole process is with the best interest of the fish in mind. The execution, in the instance of the video, obviously, is a more subjective topic.
 
I don't know if I really wanna get in on this, but I 100% agree with the OP. I don't believe this is cruel, inhumane, wrong, or mistreating the fish in any way, shape or form.

Congratulations to the OP for figuring out a way to keep this amazing little creatures alive, dispite their natural ability to kill themselves.

And if smccherry would like to spend 3x as much on fish, I breed and sell FW angelfish, but so far only locally. If you wanna pay me $250 per angel, I will gladly sell them to you and you only! Heck I'll hand deliver them and put them in your tank lol.

Anyway, I've said enuff, just keep doing what you are doing and maybe I'll order some "alive" cories from you lol.
 
I never see black cories - Jetajockey, I hope you keep on breeding these guys! I always need more wiggle butts in my tanks. Maybe in a year or so if/when I relocate to mainland US.

And if you ever see that shark mitt again... PM me! :grinyes:
 
I don't see this as even mildly controversial. It's merely a way of working with the fishes' own physiology to improve its chances of surviving shipping. Anyone who has a problem with it needs to completely rethink their keeping of fish in general.
 
I liken this to spending a day or two purging fish prior to shipping in order to make sure they are not excreting more waste than necessary into the bags. I'm sure those little fishies get hungry and stressed when they don't eat for 48 hours, but the end result is less waste and better survival. The end outweighs the means. Far worse things go on in the live fish trade. One of the reasons I quit importing/wholesaling/educating was because the bottom line is no one cares. Or should I say, the 1 out of 1000 that do care are unable or unwilling to generate the changes needed. Chasing fish around a tank to catch them with a net is exponentially more stressful than what is on this video. So I urge everyone who is offended to not buy another fish ever that someone might have to net out of a tank.
 
smcsharry said:
So, I did a reread of your post. First off the video is very wrong, bottom line. Second I can see that you are trying to figure out how to breed and ship these great fish.

All I can say is charge more, ship in much larger water volume.

If this is going to last to our grandkids, we have to breed local and absorb the cost of that. Native farming of fish is going to ruin our hobby. And our world.

But abusing fish to see how they react is wrong. And the total industry of shipping fish in tiny bags of water is wrong. I would be happy to buy a fish at 3x the price to know they were bred in captivity and shipped in a humane way. Maybe this is silly of me, but unless we all embrace this idea our kids or grandkids will never see this joy of our hobby.
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Native farming (and collecting) of fish is one of the things that will "save the world" as some like to say. Giving the people a way to earn a sustained living from their environment encourages them to preserve it rather than destroying it for a quick gain. So yes since you said it first it is silly of you!
 
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