my black shark keeps attackin my betta

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Dwarf Puffers

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Dec 11, 2006
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Okay, my apologies for bad measurements, like I said, I'm no good at it. Numbers in general elude me.
Width is 45cm, height 50c & lenght 155cm. I'm not entirely sure if that'll help with the tank size, I know is it is a deffinate 700 Litres.
The only thing is, 45cm divided by 2.5 = 18", 50cm divided by 2.5 = 20", and 155 divided by 2.5 is 62".

62 x 20 x 18 = 22320. 22320 divided by 231 = 96.623376 US gallons, multiplied by 3.78 = 365.23636 liters.

Yes, I used a calculator, LOL.
 

Lady Ns

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Sep 27, 2007
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lol... Yeah, I really suck at measuring for sure... I'll have to try it again tomorrow... Least I know I'm not all bad at maths however.

Seriously though, now that we have the Black Shark, and I now know the exact species of Black Shark it is now, Labeo Chrysophekadion, still reaching 10 inches, what should I do with it? As I can't move it for at least three weeks, because my spare tank is being used for an experiement and will need to be cleaned, drained and left to air out for a few days and I'll be going to visit family at some stage.
If I could, I'd move it to my 22L, as it would have the tank all to itself, however, I doubt my spawning pair of bettas will be happy about that, and knowing the big male I'm spawning, either the male betta or the shark will die.
 

loaches r cool

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Feb 15, 2006
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our tanks bigger than yours and we hav less fish in it and were over stocking?
you really dont know anything do you
You have multiple individual fish that are more massive (or will be) than all his fish combined... I wont get into the stocking though... other than its rather cruel to keep less than 5 clown loaches, they are a very social fish ;).

Conversion is simple, you dont need a calulator or remember any website other than google. Just type right into the search a math equation (it will do various scientific calcs as well). To do a conversion just type in a number, a unit, the word in, and a new unit. Like "100 liters in gallons" or "100 cm in inches", and even combinations of things like to calculate a tank size "48 x 18 x 20 cubic inches in liters". its really quite handy of a feature.
 

rwspear76

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Jul 5, 2006
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They won't get any larger than what they are. Not all fish will out grow the tanks they're put in, most only grow as big as their habitat will let them. We've nearly always kept large fish and never had one out grow it's tank. Our tank is not over stocked and there is still alot of room left in it. Like I've said already, they have plenty of room, they get enough food and it's kept clean and free of disease.
The majority of fish species will only grow as big as their habitat and the fish we have right now, we've done extensive research on, in our 185gal/700L tank.

We would keep smaller fish like small barbs, guppies, mollies, swordtails, etc in our tank, but we've always had problems with them. Barbs rip into other fish and each other, mollies get eaten alive while they give birth, swordtails don't stop breeding, same with guppies, etc... We have tried smaller fish in that tank, just was not the best time we had. We did start out with those fish and the tank has merely "evolved" into what it is. The Jack Dempsey and Electric Blue were actually mistaken to be small types of cichlid, as they were labelled wrong in one of our lfs. As they matured we fiugred out for sure what they were.

I will admit though, I'd like to keep some good mollies and platties in that tank again, along with another couple Congo Tetras, but I really doubt anyone wants to buy the fish we have right now and we've become really attached to them anyways. They're another part of the family. Keep in mind, even though you might think we've overstocked, we don't think we have. We know the dietry needs of each and every single fish species in that tank and take special care of it in general.

In your "extensive" research did you find anything about stunting? Stunting occurs when a fish is put in an environment that is too small for its potential size, The skeletal system and the outside stop growing, the internals often do not, often causing slow and painful deaths. I know having huge fish looks cool, but is it the right thing to do.
I have 2 125g (473L) that I have yet to set up because of the research I am doing on the fish I put in. I am researching temperment, size, temp requirements, and other critical aspects of the fish I put in.
And I think you are very overstocked, but only vecause if the potential sizes of your fish. When I am looking at a tank I try to see the potential size of the fish, not just actual size
 

ashli

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Dec 13, 2007
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They won't get any larger than what they are. Not all fish will out grow the tanks they're put in, most only grow as big as their habitat will let them.
That's like saying if you stuff a kid in a closet it isn't going to grow into an adult.
 

Pufferpunk

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I think there is a lot more to stunting than just one or two big items. Fish health and the ability to reach full genetic potential depends on a multitude of factors including the genetics, a healthy near-environment (basically water quality for fish), an appropriate environment (this includes decor, swimming space, refuge, current, lighting), and suitable food in sufficient quantity but not in excess.

You need to know how big the fish should be (Fishbase is a reliable source for this), what sort of water and physical environment the fish lives in and what its lifestyle is a schooler, lurking predator, active hunter predator, whatever, whether or not it allows or even may need conspecific or perhaps dither tankmates, or none at all. Any of these can and likely will change during development for any given fish.

Tank size hits several of these points as it allows for areas of current, for visually complex setups to explore, and space for swimming. Plus, it plays on my signature line of the answer to pollution is dilution. With increased water volume, pollutants of whatever type will be at lower concentration than the same bioload will give in smaller quarters.

Many or most fish seem to like areas of current, many do play or exercise in the current. Hunters get some just by exploration of a complex environment. Schoolers absolutely must have it or they will show caged animal stereotyped behavior just to work off activity normal and in effect hard-wired into the animal. Fish need exercise. All mobile animals need exercise. Koi kept in shallow ponds do not develop normal configurations. They are too long and slender. They need depth as well as length and width. Without exercise, muscle mass will not be in normal proportion to frame and internal organs. Puffers have less structured skeletons than most fish (adaptation to puffing), so IMHO they need to have whatever exercise they are willing to do to allow normal physical development. The space or volume bit has impact here as well. Pollution, whether from metabolites or hormones of general organics, suppresses normal growth and development. What levels of which are important? We do not know. We do that it varies from family to family for various pollutants over a substantial range. It is highly likely to vary from species to species within a family. In the best of all possible worlds, tanks would all be a high multiple of the length of the fish housed there. In reality, we rarely can provide that other than for the smallest fish. But we try to just as much volume as we can. We provide both current and relative calm, without having totally dead areas, in the tank, and we match the decor to the lifestyle of the fish.

Naturally, we feed both well and wisely. We meet the fish's nutritional and for the special needs of certain speciesand physical food suited to the particular fish. We provide enough to allow the fish to grow normally, but not so much that the fish is obese. Obesity is as great an issue for fish as for people and dogs. Too much food, not the best food, and feeding too often, all lead to problems.

Water quality I'll assume as a given. Un-oxidized metabolites (ammonia and/or nitrite) are never detectable, oxidized metabolites (nitrate) are as low as is practical for us to provide, but certainly below 40 ppm nitrate, better below 20 ppm, best at or below 10 ppm. Organics are kept low by large water changes at sufficiently short intervals that hobby testable water parameters are never far off from the source water used for the tank (whether tap or processed or otherwise modified). That means the water you remove should be quite close to the water you will replace it with, excepting perhaps the nitrate titer, and the organic (which we cannot measure).

IF you can provide all of this, your fish will, on the average, exceed the normal lifespan of the species in the wild, and frequently will be as large as if not larger than the wild counterparts. Anything less is stunting. Anything less will result in lower health and shorter life.

To me stunting is insufficient space, improper diet and exercise, and both chemical and physical environmental deficiencies. Any or all of those lacks can contribute. Any or all can result in a stunted fish.
 
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Dwarf Puffers

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Wow, bravo Pufferpunk! Very informative post!
 

jpappy789

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Me and Call Me Elmo are from Australia.
The fish we currently have in our 700L (rough guess at the amount of water): 10" Eeltail Catfish, 7" Pleco, 9" Pleco, 6" Female Silver Dollar, 5" Male Silver Dollar, 8" Female Jack Dempsey, 5" Red-Tail Shark, 5" Red-Finned Shark, 81/2" Electric Blue, 81/2" Golden Gourami, 4 Kribensis 2"-3", 81/2" Silver/Bala Shark, 6" Clown Loach, 2' Clown Loach, 3" Chocolate Cichild, 6" Chocolate Cichlid, 2" Bristle-Nose & 1"-2" cories (two male, one female).
Probably some baby kribs in there somewhere too. That's all I can see right now.

And if we put the Black Shark in there now, it would be eaten by either the Eel-Tail or the female JD, which has eaten our baby kribs in the past and khuli loaches.
Sorry, if this seems out of line but I would be worried about those corys. How often do you even see them?

I know that overstocking tends to be looked at as just a space issue but how do your water params look? What are your normal nitrate readings? How often are you doing water changes? How much filtration?

Dont want to grill you, just want to help :)
 
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