My luck finally ran out (ich)

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Wyomingite

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Oct 16, 2008
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Ivan
It's been two straight weeks of 87 degree (Fahrenheit) heat treatment + frequent bare bottom siphoned water changes and there's still ich present. Very faintly but still there. Every time it seems like they're disappearing another odd spot or two appears to take their place.

Should I resort to medication by now? Have been thinking of trying Seachem Paraguard.
In my opinion, yes. But then again I always use meds right off. My philosophy on disease treatment is hit it hard and hit it fast. That's true of any disease, but I've never had good luck with the high temp treatment with ich so proceed just like I would any other disease with meds right out of the gate.

WYite
 

FishAddict74

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Dec 8, 2020
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It's been two straight weeks of 87 degree (Fahrenheit) heat treatment + frequent bare bottom siphoned water changes and there's still ich present. Very faintly but still there. Every time it seems like they're disappearing another odd spot or two appears to take their place.

Should I resort to medication by now? Have been thinking of trying Seachem Paraguard.
IMO medication should be the last resort, it sounds like you’re seeing improvement, so I would stick with what you’re doing. The last time I dealt with ich, it took a little over 3 weeks at 88f for it to be totally gone and I ran it at 88 another 2 weeks just to be sure.
 

FishAddict74

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Dec 8, 2020
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It's been two straight weeks of 87 degree (Fahrenheit) heat treatment + frequent bare bottom siphoned water changes and there's still ich present. Very faintly but still there. Every time it seems like they're disappearing another odd spot or two appears to take their place.

Should I resort to medication by now? Have been thinking of trying Seachem Paraguard.
Well, sh*t, I just realized WYite and I just gave you two completely opposite answers. Too clarify, I think both ways will get the job done. I think medication will get it done quicker and has a higher success rate, but you’re adding chemicals to your tank. I’ve had good success with the temp method, but it takes longer and it leaves you wondering if they’re still there waiting to come back.
 

Snagrio

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Well, sh*t, I just realized WYite and I just gave you two completely opposite answers. Too clarify, I think both ways will get the job done. I think medication will get it done quicker and has a higher success rate, but you’re adding chemicals to your tank. I’ve had good success with the temp method, but it takes longer and it leaves you wondering if they’re still there waiting to come back.
That's just it. I get it won't be gone in a day but with how it's still been "sneaking around" for this long I'm getting antsy that I'll think it's gone after a while, then the second they arrive in the main tank it'll be too late. I'm in need of something a bit stronger than just higher heat at this rate for a more assuring eradication.

That and I really want to get them out of the QT sooner rather than later due to other issues. I don't know how it happened but during the last routine water change one of the hatchets got injured. Bloody bruises along the back end of the body and its tail fin got badly tattered. It's thankfully been recovering with all the bruises having disappeared and still moving/eating normally, but it's become clear that the tiny 10 gallon space is taking its own toll on the poor things.
 

FishAddict74

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That's just it. I get it won't be gone in a day but with how it's still been "sneaking around" for this long I'm getting antsy that I'll think it's gone after a while, then the second they arrive in the main tank it'll be too late. I'm in need of something a bit stronger than just higher heat at this rate for a more assuring eradication.

That and I really want to get them out of the QT sooner rather than later due to other issues. I don't know how it happened but during the last routine water change one of the hatchets got injured. Bloody bruises along the back end of the body and its tail fin got badly tattered. It's thankfully been recovering with all the bruises having disappeared and still moving/eating normally, but it's become clear that the tiny 10 gallon space is taking its own toll on the poor things.
I must’ve missed something, I thought you were treating your display tank. If it’s a QT tank, then I’m totally on team medication.
 
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Snagrio

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I must’ve missed something, I thought you were treating your display tank. If it’s a QT tank, then I’m totally on team medication.
Goodness no. That's why I'm wanting to make certain that the ich is gone so I don't potentially have to treat the main system where the live plants and snails are.
 
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Snagrio

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Now there's a new problem I just noticed... There's several hatchet scales that have floated to the bottom. My best guess is they're coming from one that got injured the other day, but idk if it's just damaged scales falling off or ANOTHER problem cropping up.
 

FishAddict74

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Now there's a new problem I just noticed... There's several hatchet scales that have floated to the bottom. My best guess is they're coming from one that got injured the other day, but idk if it's just damaged scales falling off or ANOTHER problem cropping up.
My guess it’s from fighting or some type of injury, I’m not aware of any disease that cause scales to fall off
 
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Wyomingite

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Oct 16, 2008
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Ivan
Now there's a new problem I just noticed... There's several hatchet scales that have floated to the bottom. My best guess is they're coming from one that got injured the other day, but idk if it's just damaged scales falling off or ANOTHER problem cropping up.
If none of the hatchets seem to be showing any problems like open wounds, ulcers or bruising (other than the one that was injured) then I wouldn't worry about a few scales. A fish will lose scales once in a while just like a bird loses a feather or you and I lose a hair here and there, even without a specific injury or cause. It's natural and the scales will regrow. Don't get me wrong, fish do not shed their scales like a dog or cat sheds its fur or like an invert sheds its skin as it grows, but they do lose scales on occasion. As someone whose kept a large variety of aggressive cichlids, I generally see scales fairly often if I look for them.

The first source may be the hatchet that was injured. Since it suffered a bit off trauma some scales may have fallen off. The other source may be from multiple fish as a matter of course. It may very well be a bit of both (my guess). Regardless, fish skin and scales heal and grow much, much faster than mammalian skin and hair.

As fish keepers we normally don't notice this as the scales are small and blend into the substrate and get vacuumed from the substrate. They may end up in the filter. If you look for them, I would be surprised if you can't find the occasional scale in the future.

My guess it’s from fighting or some type of injury, I’m not aware of any disease that cause scales to fall off
Yup, or just a natural occurrence.

As for treating the ich with meds or not, there isn't a wrong or right answer. Like I said, I've never had luck with the high heat method and use meds immediately. Others have used the high heat method with great success. An on-going disease or parasite infection can be stressful to fish, but so can medications. You've kind of come to a crossroads where you'll have to decide which way to go is best and do what is best for your fish based on your observations.

WYite
 
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FishAddict74

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If none of the hatchets seem to be showing any problems like open wounds, ulcers or bruising (other than the one that was injured) then I wouldn't worry about a few scales. A fish will lose scales once in a while just like a bird loses a feather or you and I lose a hair here and there, even without a specific injury or cause. It's natural and the scales will regrow. Don't get me wrong, fish do not shed their scales like a dog or cat sheds its fur or like an invert sheds its skin as it grows, but they do lose scales on occasion. As someone whose kept a large variety of aggressive cichlids, I generally see scales fairly often if I look for them.

The first source may be the hatchet that was injured. Since it suffered a bit off trauma some scales may have fallen off. The other source may be from multiple fish as a matter of course. It may very well be a bit of both (my guess). Regardless, fish skin and scales heal and grow much, much faster than mammalian skin and hair.

As fish keepers we normally don't notice this as the scales are small and blend into the substrate and get vacuumed from the substrate. They may end up in the filter. If you look for them, I would be surprised if you can't find the occasional scale in the future.



Yup, or just a natural occurrence.

As for treating the ich with meds or not, there isn't a wrong or right answer. Like I said, I've never had luck with the high heat method and use meds immediately. Others have used the high heat method with great success. An on-going disease or parasite infection can be stressful to fish, but so can medications. You've kind of come to a crossroads where you'll have to decide which way to go is best and do what is best for your fish based on your observations.

WYite
+1
I was a medication user for ich until I got into reef keeping. Since meds will kill inverts, i learned as much as I could about the raising the temp method and it’s been good for me, granted I’ve only dealt with ich a few times over the last decade. But I think like you said, it’s really all based on passed experience and personal preference which is better. I missed that he was using a QT or I would’ve recommended medication as well.
 
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