PH help, desperate

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Astarell

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So I've had fish for more than 20 years and I honestly can't figure this problem out. Right now I have 5 tanks, but only two of them are giving me trouble. The PH is dropping dramatically in a matter of hours no matter what I do. All water parameters are normal except the ph. Ammonia is fine, so are nitrites and nitrates.

I came out one morning and saw that the tank I had my female and fry endlers in was dead. (I managed to save 4 fry but for all intents and purposes my colony is defunct even if all 4 turn out to be female) The males were all right so I moved the remaining fry in with them and did the scheduled 30% water change and gravel siphon. The ph in the fry tank was below 6.0, the ph in the male tank was 6.6. A little low but acceptable as 6.8 is the norm for these tanks. The fry tank was thoroughly rinsed out, sponge filter rinsed, and emptied. A few days later I noticed one of the males acting odd and decided to check the parameters again, it was reading 6.0 ph. I did another water change and it was back to 6.6, but in the morning it was 6.0 again so it got another water change with the same effects. I re-filled the fry tank, moved everyone over there (males and remaining fry), and it was reading at 6.6. That night when I came home it was back to 6.0 and I have had to do 50% water changes twice daily (before work and when I get home) just to keep these fish alive. That is not practical, so after day 3 I also started dosing with PH up as my LFS doesn't carry crushed coral for some reason. It requires three to four times the recommended dosage just to get it to 6.6/6.8, and then a few hours later it's back to 6.0 again; this has been going on for 4 or 5 days now, dosing twice daily. None of my other tanks have this problem. I just upgraded my goldfish to a larger tank three days ago with all new water, and their ph is holding steady at 6.8 so I know it isn't the water that's the problem.

In the two endler tanks, the only similarity they share is that they both had endlers and are using the same air pump with 2 out ports. They have different brands of heaters, their own sponge filters, the fry tank is bare and the male tank has gravel and decorations. Both tanks had elodia, java moss, and marimo balls before all this happened, although since they've been moved back to the fry tank it hasn't had any. The male tank has a lot of duckweed, the fry tank has very little. I don't know how the air pump could be causing this but it's the only thing I can think of since it doesn't make sense for the fish to be lowering the ph. The hood/lights are different brands and one is lcd and the other is a regular bulb. The tanks have been set up for different amounts of time so it's not the natural cycle. Please help, I can't think what else to do! I'm at my wit's end!
 

Rbishop

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What does your tap pH read from a good liquid test kit, on a sample that sat out overnight?

Are you adding anything to adjust pH?
 

Astarell

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The tap water after sitting out reads 6.8, and recently I have been adding ph up to the tank in trouble but otherwise I don't adjust the ph in any of my tanks.
 

tanker

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A lot of things can cause low PH. Low O2 (oxygen), decaying food/plants, driftwood, ect.
Your tanks may not have any buffers to stablize the PH either. Using PH up, with no buffers, is useless.
 

Astarell

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It's got an oxygen powered sponge filter, has no plants or driftwood, and twice daily water changes so there isn't any decaying food. Wouldn't an established sponge filter be a buffer as well as oxygen source anyway? Even if it wasn't a buffer, a drop of six to eight points in a matter of hours is not normal.
 

Rbishop

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The "buffer" is the minerals in the water to maintain pH as they get depleted. What is your WC frequency and amount?
 

Greggz

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Bob, you know more than me. Is it possible this could be due to low kh? My understanding is that very low kh can lead to ph swings. Since kh serves as a ph buffer, should he check kh and then raise if necessary? Just a thought.
 

FreshyFresh

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It would help to have a KH and GH read from the tanks in question as compared to the tap water KH and GH. Water top-ups due to evaporation will change these, thus changing your pH.
 

Astarell

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The "buffer" is the minerals in the water to maintain pH as they get depleted. What is your WC frequency and amount?
I do 30-40% once a week normally. Since this all started they got 50% twice a day for a few days, and now it's once a day water changes and dosing twice.
 

Astarell

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Bob, you know more than me. Is it possible this could be due to low kh? My understanding is that very low kh can lead to ph swings. Since kh serves as a ph buffer, should he check kh and then raise if necessary? Just a thought.
I've never dealt with KH and my master test kit doesn't have a kh test. I checked the lfs and they don't have one either, would I be able to find one at a pool supply store?
 
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