Plants vs. algae

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The Plantman

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Apr 13, 2010
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I know precisely how to eliminate 90-95% of algae in my tank, maybe some of what I do, and understand to work for me, may help others to have beautifully planted algae free tanks. I posted some of this in a thread in the Algae forum and thought I’d put a modified version of it and expand on it in here as well. This is basically, all I know about the subject.

I made a lot of mistakes and learned a lot from them. The internet, with sites such as this one, is great but you really have to take the info you get and try it. See if it works for you.

The best thing to understand is that plants store energy and will continue to grow for up to a week or more after a nutritional deficiency is present in the aquarium and this is a great thing! Because this is how we can get rid of algae naturally and without using chemicals like Flourish Excel or any other algaecides. Algae are single celled organisms (thank god!) and cannot store energy; the plants that we want to grow can store energy and continue to grow, sometimes for more then a 2 weeks and that is the great news! People that buy plants and put them in there tanks that have insufficient lighting, no Co2 and who do not do regular water changes will have there plants wither and die within 1-2 weeks. Most people here that are having some difficulty, probably have many aspects of there aquariums right for growing plants but are missing the “magic ingredient”, that little piece of knowledge that would make all the difference. That piece of knowledge is “plants store energy and algae do not”.

I will tell you what I do and you can do with it, what you wish.


I’ve been trying to grow plants in my tanks for over 6 years and I’m still trying but I have figured out a few basic things that work for me every time! I do very routine water changes, same day, same time. During the cycle I do 25% afterwards I do 10-15% but keep in mind I only start a tank with just a few fish. I started my current tank with a school of Danios to get the cycle done faster; Danios are machines and can easily live through a cycling as long as you do your water changes. When my tank is cycled I put in my plants, arranging them in a way that looks as natural as I can. I start with just about all the plants I want to put in it, but I do wait to put in that one centerpiece plant so I can see how the tank is evolving and get a better idea where to put my eye attractor plant. I put the big tall ones at the back short ones near the front. Now I need to get the tank nutritionally balanced. The “balance”, we hear people say this to us all the time but what does it mean? How do we find the “balance”, and what the heck are we balancing in the first place? We are balancing nutrients and it can be much easier then you think. Does this mean we need to figure out the exact quantities of every nutrient I’m putting into the tank? NO! Fertilizer companies have done most of it for us. I hate to plug any one in particular but I have had fantastic results from Tropica Aquacare Plant nutrition. They have 2, one with, and one without nitrate and phosphate. The one with N and P must be used VERY carefully. Here is where we take advantage of algae’s big weakness; it can’t survive for more then a few hours without nutrients. At first my tank does not have a large plant population; I need to grow it into a nutrient eating machine. When my plants are first set up they are small and use up very little nutrients so I do small water changes 10% without any fertilizers. My tap water has enough of just “about” everything they need to last till I do my next water change. What my water is missing is Co2. Plants need water, light, Co2, nitrate and phosphate to grow, if you do routine water changes you’ll be getting enough of the trace elements like iron, magnesium. Most tap water has everything in it but Co2 and of course light. Light, you need to supply at least 1.8 watts. I say 1.8 because this is what my first planted tank had, you may be able to get away with less but I have no experience with that. If any of these things are missing, you’re going to have a problem. As your plants grow they use more and more nutrients. Here is the balance; you need to get your water changes in sink with your plants nutritional needs. Routine water changes that restore just enough nutrients to last for about 5-6 days leaving 1-2 days with a nutrient deficient algae killing aquarium. The nutrients that plants use up fastest are Nitrates and Phosphates. They do this by utilizing light and Co2. If you have a situation where there are no Nitrates or phosphates in the tank algae cannot grow. Without these nutrients algae will die very quickly. If that deficiency lasts longer then a week or so you run into serious trouble. And the first one that usually shows up under these circumstances is BBA. The first time I ran into BBA is when I had my first very heavily planted tank, a 29 gallon. I let the plants really take over, it was pact and really nice! I was fertilizing but with a product that did not have extra N and P in it (Nitrates and Phosphates). I had been using it with every water change for about 4 months no problems. Then one week BANG BBA shows up on day 7! I’m like “What the hell!” Well it turns out what happened was my tank was so full of plants that the food, fertilizers and water I was putting in wasn’t generating enough Phosphate and or Nitrate. I found that Tropica and other fertilizers actually do make a fertilizer that has N and P in it. So I started adding this (just a little) and the BBA died in less then a week!

I have a neat way to find out when to start adding fertilizer in my aquarium. When the plants start getting big I do a water change and include a small amount of fertilizer. If it’s to early my tank gets a fine covering of green hairy algae on the glass. It goes away in about 3-4 days and then I wait for the plants to get bigger and try again. As soon as the algae doesn’t show up on the glass I continue using fertilizer. I also test for Phosphate and Nitrate every week. When these start to get almost unnoticeable on my tests I do the same thing.


We all have the spores of algae’s in our tanks, what we need to do is limit for a day or two there excess to nutrients. The plants can handle it, algae cannot!

I hope this helps just one person be more successful growing plants and eliminating algae.
 

plantbrain

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Algae can easily go several days without nutrients and the they store it for long time frames as well. There's little real competition between algae and plants. Focus on the plants, not the algae.

Then you get at the root issue and goal, growing plants.

Many seem obsessed(I'm not sure why) with out competing algae with nutrients. This is wrong and not even logical.

If anything, light is the only thing they compete with one another for.
So using less light solved the issue in most cases. But many think more is better with light and less is better with nutrients, when the opposite is really true.

Light drives all growth=. this drives CO2 demand which then drives nutrient demand.

Algae are neither nutrient nor CO2 limited in any planted tank.........this leaves what else left?

Here's my high nutrient in the water and the sediment aquarium:



I dose 5ppm of PO4/15ppm of NO3 3x a week, light is low, about 40-50 micromols, good current and CO2, lots and lots of fish, Fire shrimp and super red cherries, catfish etc etc.

The goal is aquatic plant gardening, stick with that focus.
Algae are not much issue then.

Then you fix the root issue.

there's no need to cycle a planted tank..........

I do not test N or P, no need.
I'd much rather folks focus on using less light and better CO2/nutrients, this is stated on Tropica's web site as well as many others that have been around.

See here:
http://www.tropica.com/article.asp?type=aquaristic&id=142
 

Aphotic Phoenix

Graver Girl
Jun 5, 2007
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Here is where we take advantage of algae’s big weakness; it can’t survive for more then a few hours without nutrients.
I really wish someone would have told that to the thread algae that survived a multi-day trip on damp moss through the mail. ~

Mmm...zombie algae.

Seriously though...I've never had algae come from dry dosing my own ferts, unless I underdose something and end up with sickly plants.
 

The Plantman

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Apr 13, 2010
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Since fish are constantly generating NO3 and PO4, I'm assuming you don't keep fish in your aquariums.
I have fish but I keep my fish load light. I know I'm right about having a nutrient deficient time period during the week, because unlike the above poster I do test for N and P and if I have a period of over 2-3 days in my tank with virtually 0 Nitrates and 0 Phosphates all the algae die! I did it with my first planted tank and I've done it again with my second. I have algae, and then I starve the tank of Nitrates and Phosphates for 2-4 days and the algae all die. Sometimes it does takes two 2-4 day starvations, the plants seem unaffected and keep growing but the algae dies.

I run 2.4 watts of T-5 light and 25-35ppm of Co2. When I fertilize I use Auqaucare Plantnutrition with N and P. I raise the numbers to Phosphate .25 to .5 and Nitrate to 5.0 I test 2-3 days afterward and the Nitrate and Phosphate are gone. This is what I do and I have almost zero algae in my tank. I only have just a bit of green algae in cracks in the wood and tiny areas of low water movement.

My first tank 29 gallons


My new second tank 46 bowfront
 

The Plantman

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Apr 13, 2010
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Algae can easily go several days without nutrients and the they store it for long time frames as well. There's little real competition between algae and plants.
This is flat out WRONG!


Then you get at the root issue and goal, growing plants.
This is a meanless statement!


Many seem obsessed(I'm not sure why) with out competing algae with nutrients. This is wrong and not even logical.
Because algae cannot live as long as plants without N and P present!


If anything, light is the only thing they compete with one another for.
Another utterly rediculas statememt!



Light drives all growth=. this drives CO2 demand which then drives nutrient demand.
Hey, look at that, you got something right!


Algae are neither nutrient nor CO2 limited in any planted tank.........this leaves what else left?
Dude! I can't believe you can grow plants



I dose 5ppm of PO4/15ppm of NO3 3x a week, light is low, about 40-50 micromols, good current and CO2, lots and lots of fish, Fire shrimp and super red cherries, catfish etc etc.?
I am really glad you posted some actual numbers. Firstly, you do not have that many fish for a tank that size and all the fish you mentioned are relatively low NO3 producers. You put very small amounts of fertilizer in that massively planted tank! I would highly recommend that before you do your scheduled fertilization you test your tank for N and P I can guarantee that you'll show zero of each. Your tank is being starved for 1 day of N and P 3 times a week. And don't tell me it's not, because you don't know, because you don't test.

If you don't test, you don't know what is going on in your tank!


The goal is aquatic plant gardening, stick with that focus.
Algae are not much issue then.
Yes people, clip your plants and algae will just go away. Algae, don't like gardiners! LOL

Then you fix the root issue..
Again, you fail to mention what you believe the actual root issue is!

I do not test N or P, no need.
Then you have no idea how much or how little of the most importent nutients are in your tank!

I'd much rather folks focus on using less light and better CO2/nutrients, this is stated on Tropica's web site as well as many others that have been around.
This statemnet is generally true, but you don't know why!


Very beautiful tank by the way! If only you knew how you did it!
 
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The Plantman

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I really wish someone would have told that to the thread algae that survived a multi-day trip on damp moss through the mail. ~ .
Algae can live in the dark for a while with nutrients present and dieing moss gives off nutrients.

Dude, think!


Seriously though...I've never had algae come from dry dosing my own ferts, unless I underdose something and end up with sickly plants.
Siclky plants mean growth slows and they rott tonnes of nutients into the water = algae

Come on guys this isn't rocket science here! Just think about it. Every form of life needs nutrients. Plants are a much higher more sophisticated form of plant life then algae. I admit algae can store some energy, however it cannot store nearly as much has higher plants can. And so when there is no Nitrates or Phosphates the algae run out of fuel first! Plants win.
 
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Aphotic Phoenix

Graver Girl
Jun 5, 2007
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:rofl:


Yeah...that's pretty much all I have to say.

(Edit...I guess I should point out that I am perfectly aware that dying/decaying plants will release ammonia. Ammonia being a source of nitrogen that some (perhaps most) aquatic plants will uptake faster and more readily than Nitrate. (Thank you Walstad ~). Excess ammonia is a suspected algae trigger by many, but I'm fairly certain most people don't dose their tanks with ammonium nitrate so I don't consider it a willingly added "nutrient".)
 
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