Small yellow spots, please help ID

[PurpleGem]

It would be good to know how old the fish is. To me it looks like a fungal infection because of the lumpy type structure. Bacteria would coat a certain part of the fish (mostly injuries). I am not very experienced with betta keeping but a fungal infection is my best guess. Does it rub itself on objects in the tank? Also to me it looks like he has had a previous injury on his left side (3rd pic), which also makes it more likely to be a fungal infection.

Like I said, he doesn't scratch on any of the ornaments in the tank. Sometimes he seems a bit irritated but that's about it. He swims faster against the front glass of the tank with his left side, I'm wondering if he's trying to scratch it on the glass. I don't know where he got it from but my guess was that he lost his scales from whatever is affecting him, something might have burst through the skin, or eaten it. Could have been from when I had a hang on back filter, he'd normally avoid the one spot with the outflow (it didn't push him around the tank or anything) but I saw him try to swim through it a few times and get pushed down onto an ornament (which I tried to move after seeing it, but it's really big). Now have sponge filters...

 

[PurpleGem]

If it is Oodinium (velvet), treat it as you would Ich.

Velvet can use photosynthesis to survive unlike ich. Similar treatments, true but yeah velvet has a bit of an advantage over ich.

 

[PurpleGem]

It would be good to know how old the fish is. To me it looks like a fungal infection because of the lumpy type structure. Bacteria would coat a certain part of the fish (mostly injuries). I am not very experienced with betta keeping but a fungal infection is my best guess. Does it rub itself on objects in the tank? Also to me it looks like he has had a previous injury on his left side (3rd pic), which also makes it more likely to be a fungal infection.

Forgot to mention, I don't know how old he is. I think he's still a young adult, I think he was a little smaller when I first got him, had him for nearly 4 months now.

 

[PurpleGem]

True, I know that's the root of my problem. I was worried because the ammonia didn't seem to be converting for a while until recently. Now I just have to get ammonia and nitrites to drop. Epistylis, that's an interesting one, most people have told me it's velvet but like you said, velvet is dust like and I've shone a torch on him a million times, nothing shines gold. Can't get a scrape done, so my shotgun approach has been to ask as many people as possible, though that hasn't really helped much as people either say it's a parasite like velvet/ich, a bacterial infection or a fungal infection. The spots around his gills aren't white and fluffy like in the description of epistylis.
Temp was sitting at 27 but is at 29 degrees celcius today, probably cause the house it a lot warmer and we don't have the air con on. I forgot to test the pH lately, it has been very stable, I think the water is good at buffering and preventing swings. It's been stable at 7.5 but I should double check it since I read recently that the high levels of ammonia, nitirites and nitrates can affect the pH.

Would he recover once the water parameters are more normal or should I treat him with something?

I read up about it: https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/10-2-4-epistylis/
It says it kills very quickly right? He's had this problem for over a month, probably two, it's not fast though it has gotten worse more quickly recently. Patchy, yes. White, no.
I was thinking about getting a medication with acriflavine in it and set up a qt for him. Do you think that'll work?

 

[PurpleGem]

It looks more like ich, but it doesn't have to be, you would have to examine a scrape under a microscope to see what it is. Not a fungus though, and it doesn't look like velvet, that is much smaller, like a dust, that can even be hard to see depending on the light. My guess it would be Epistylis.

Salt bath isn't going to do anything. You would have to address the water first and foremost, with ammonia and nitrite present a sick fish is not going to get better. And what is the temperature and pH?

Just tested it, can't quite tell exactly but looks like the pH is either 7 or 7.5. I also tried to get another look at it to see if the spots are actually fuzzy or not but it's really hard to tell as he gets excited when I try and look. Kind of does look like it might be a really fine fuzz, not super fluffy or overally cottony, really hard to tell.

 

[the loach]

my shotgun approach has been to ask as many people as possible, though that hasn't really helped much as people either say it's a parasite like velvet/ich, a bacterial infection or a fungal infection.

The problem is it is impossible to diagnose without a scrape (and even that has its limitations, as in case of a bacterial infection you would still be guessing which bacteria and to which antibiotics are they resistent, meaning it has to be sent to a laboratory to identify the bacteria and do an antibiogram). It also doesn't matter what the majority of people think, that doesn't make it correct. Do you have a magnifying glass? Lymphocystis looks more like caulliflower heads, Epistylis more like mucus.
In case no scrape can be examined I would try and treat it with the 12 hr Artemiss/Herbtana protocol, but I see you're in Australia and an Australian member recently commented those products are not sold over there, it's kind of moot.... I don't know what is available, I would make sure that ammonia and nitrite is at 0 at all times (add live plants) then try an anti bacterial product. If it is a real anti biotic... don't treat inhabitants that aren't sick.

I read up about it: https://aquariumscience.org/index.php/10-2-4-epistylis/
It says it kills very quickly right?

Very small fish with a heavy infestation, if it is Epistylis, but that's not what you're dealing with.... if it is Epistylis, it is there because of poor water conditions and/or a bacterial infection.

 

[fishorama]

I've never seen yellow ich or lymphocystis. Lympho supposedly goes away after a while but can come back. It doesn't sound like velvet either. True fungus is pretty unusual, it's usually 1 of a couple bacteria that look white & fuzzy.

PG, when you used salt, was it as a short term bath or a many days treatment? What dosage?

Maybe methylene blue or malachite green would help, they're old school for some things, sometimes mixed with formalin...Green dyes are harder on fish...& effective for different things. Most local fish shops have those here in the US, you may not.

This is a helpful site Aquarium Medications Part 3 | Parasite & Chemical treatments (americanaquariumproducts.com) It will depend on what you can get where you live. This site also lists many meds including acriflavin (often used with other med mixtures). There's also an antibiotics page on that site, I know you're very limited in options.

I'm sorry to say but whatever your fish has is pretty advanced, a month is a long time & it may take a while for you to get meds. From a previous post from Australia, it would take a month to have an available drug shipped...that's a long time to wait...

I'm sorry to be such a downer, my fingers are crossed for you & your betta

 

[PurpleGem]

I've never seen yellow ich or lymphocystis. Lympho supposedly goes away after a while but can come back. It doesn't sound like velvet either. True fungus is pretty unusual, it's usually 1 of a couple bacteria that look white & fuzzy.

PG, when you used salt, was it as a short term bath or a many days treatment? What dosage?

Maybe methylene blue or malachite green would help, they're old school for some things, sometimes mixed with formalin...Green dyes are harder on fish...& effective for different things. Most local fish shops have those here in the US, you may not.

This is a helpful site Aquarium Medications Part 3 | Parasite & Chemical treatments (americanaquariumproducts.com) It will depend on what you can get where you live. This site also lists many meds including acriflavin (often used with other med mixtures). There's also an antibiotics page on that site, I know you're very limited in options.

I'm sorry to say but whatever your fish has is pretty advanced, a month is a long time & it may take a while for you to get meds. From a previous post from Australia, it would take a month to have an available drug shipped...that's a long time to wait...

I'm sorry to be such a downer, my fingers are crossed for you & your betta

I've read that Neo ich is yellow but it covers the whole body...some of the symptoms seem to match it though.


Ah, yes, I've come across this site before, it is a very helpful one. Thanks for sending it to me.
I used one "tablespoon" (it was a spoon roughly tablespoon sized and I don't have any measuring spoons), per 5 gallons and since the tank is 30L I just used one. That was for the first week but then I redosed it on the second. There were a few water changes (with Prime) here and there as my tank is still cycling and the parameters are super high. There's likely still salt in it but at a smaller percentage, I was considering adding another spoonful...

Yeah, kinda sucks the choices here but there's these which have acriflavine in it (I have been eyeing the acriflavine medications for a while and was going to try it next), basically the same percentages as a lot of the other medications that have the same ingredients at varying volumes and prices. These look to be the cheapest. There's also Blue Planet's Multicure which has the exact same stuff. I just need to set up a hospital tank (I don't have a spare tank and I've bought 5L containers to try and use as a hospital tank), I don't have a second heater yet. With my next Centrelink payment, I'm going to buy a heater and some medications. I have Blue planet tri sulfa, which I haven't tried yet.

Thanks. He's still active and happy at the moment. It does look bad but i hope he gets better soon...

 

[fishorama]

Thanks for the neoich description, that could be what your fish has. I googled & found this INFOFISHFish-Health-_-05-2012.pdf (bassleer.com) It says you need to treat for at least 14 days. Another place said it doesn't fall off the fish like "regular ich", it reproduces in the slime coat FRESHWATER FISH ILLNESSES AND DISEASES - PARASITIC INFECTIONS (google.com)

At least the salt will have helped with the nitrite poisoning (see brown blood disease).

Those are some big expensive bottles! Maybe it comes in a smaller size, but it sounds like you'll be treating & water changing a lot for a while. I hope 1 of those works, they look similar as you said. I think if it were me I'd try 1 of the above before the sulpha drugs, it looks more parasitic than bacterial to me, but there are many fish diseases I know nothing about (thank goodness). Good luck!

 

[PurpleGem]

Thanks for the neoich description, that could be what your fish has. I googled & found this INFOFISHFish-Health-_-05-2012.pdf (bassleer.com) It says you need to treat for at least 14 days. Another place said it doesn't fall off the fish like "regular ich", it reproduces in the slime coat FRESHWATER FISH ILLNESSES AND DISEASES - PARASITIC INFECTIONS (google.com)

At least the salt will have helped with the nitrite poisoning (see brown blood disease).

Those are some big expensive bottles! Maybe it comes in a smaller size, but it sounds like you'll be treating & water changing a lot for a while. I hope 1 of those works, they look similar as you said. I think if it were me I'd try 1 of the above before the sulpha drugs, it looks more parasitic than bacterial to me, but there are many fish diseases I know nothing about (thank goodness). Good luck!

Yes, I've come across those websites before. There's not much about neo ich sadly...
The second site said that "Viral Lymphocystis may also cause a similar white spot appearance," and some of the lumps (the ones on his tail) look more like possible lymph I'm hoping it's not a more resistant parasitic infection...
As far as I know, acriflavine can treat both bacterial and parasites, so I'm going to try that first. If that fails, I've found one of the stores were selling Ichonex, which has copper in it.

Thanks a lot