Some pictures

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fishorama

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Hybrids almost never happen in the wild. Fish can tell who is their same species. But in our tanks or commercial breeder pond fish will breed with a "close enough" fish, usually the same genus but sometime a near enough relative to produce fry...whether they can reproduce can be iffy.

Varieties of a species are usually just line bred for color or fin shape etc. Line breeding (inbreeding) can lead to weaker fish. But those newish "electric blue" cichlids sound like maybe something else. It's not clear just where the "electric blue" gene comes from. I'm not a fan of albino, lutino or long fins etc. Those traits are fairly easy to breed for. I usually prefer "natural" fish except maybe for discus & angels ;) but I don't keep those anymore. I think that where NoodleCats borelli come in. They & your borelli are different...regional differences? Line breeding? Different tank lighting? I don't know.

& then there are the unscrupulous "breeders" of what I think of as "frankenfish". As I'm sure you know sidthimunki loaches are commercially bred using hormones & stripping out eggs & milt. Clown loaches are being created that way now too...but so are "tiger clowns" & other possibly attractive "new" loaches (my big negative focus).

I think now that DNA testing is less novel & expensive we might learn more but it may be too late to stop. & yes, the "Czech" & other fish breeders seem to have a reputation for hybrids with loaches but likely other fish too. But once 1 can breed a certain fish it's not long before many can & do.
 

jake72

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Hybrids almost never happen in the wild. Fish can tell who is their same species. But in our tanks or commercial breeder pond fish will breed with a "close enough" fish, usually the same genus but sometime a near enough relative to produce fry...whether they can reproduce can be iffy.

Varieties of a species are usually just line bred for color or fin shape etc. Line breeding (inbreeding) can lead to weaker fish. But those newish "electric blue" cichlids sound like maybe something else. It's not clear just where the "electric blue" gene comes from. I'm not a fan of albino, lutino or long fins etc. Those traits are fairly easy to breed for. I usually prefer "natural" fish except maybe for discus & angels ;) but I don't keep those anymore. I think that where NoodleCats borelli come in. They & your borelli are different...regional differences? Line breeding? Different tank lighting? I don't know.

& then there are the unscrupulous "breeders" of what I think of as "frankenfish". As I'm sure you know sidthimunki loaches are commercially bred using hormones & stripping out eggs & milt. Clown loaches are being created that way now too...but so are "tiger clowns" & other possibly attractive "new" loaches (my big negative focus).

I think now that DNA testing is less novel & expensive we might learn more but it may be too late to stop. & yes, the "Czech" & other fish breeders seem to have a reputation for hybrids with loaches but likely other fish too. But once 1 can breed a certain fish it's not long before many can & do.
In general i take the same approach as you. I'm not sure about noodle's borelli; would have to understand the history. THe most common hybrid apistogramma out there that i know of are steel blue. No one knows for sure what they are a cross because the creator won't say.

Clown loaches ot my knowledge are not being commerically bred. There is a fellow who does breed them the way you describe but my understanding it just isnt' cost effective since it takes so long for the young to grow to a sellable size and they frequently have 'issues'. For now it is just cheaper to catch them in the wild; however that might soon change as mining - lithium mining is destroying their habitat.
 

fishorama

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I think, but am not sure, they were called TR for tank raised. I was thinking I would keep clowns 1 more time but not those! I know some people love odd markings on their fish & collect them. These were not just that kind... they were hideous!
 

jake72

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I think, but am not sure, they were called TR for tank raised. I was thinking I would keep clowns 1 more time but not those! I know some people love odd markings on their fish & collect them. These were not just that kind... they were hideous!
I have a couple of clown loaches with odd markings but they came from very reliable sources as wild caught. They look like regular clown loaches just slightly extra black dot on the side -nothing gross. On loaches.com i raised the question about if it was an indication of different catch location or what have you and it seems that if you look around you will find quite a few with a tad different marking . However the acutal images you showed me were nothing like clown loaches they were obvious hybrids and quite disgusting at that.
 

fishorama

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I've never had a "Spot", a "Jigsaw Puzzle" or "Partial Line" clown, whatever, but I don't dislike like them. I almost think we should post the awful hybrid pics so others can see how really bad hybrids can be. I couldn't find any available pics of "dolphin nosed", round nosed or anything similar. Hopefully they were a past icky mistake, they were horrid!...Up to you jake, it's your thread, that's why I sent you PM pics. If you don't want to go there, anyone can go to loaches.com & search Czech. There are only a few pics available now but it gives an idea of the possible horrors.

I would have PM'd you this but I'm all for telling all of AC what I'd seen years ago. I think we all need to be aware of what monstrosities can be out there in fishy world. It's not always about lighting & camera angles to make our fish look pretty...it can be so much worse!

Sorry we've derailed your pretty tanks pics...but now I think we have to say...don't you? I can only hope those fish are not available anymore...
 

jake72

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I think we should distinguish between hybrids and natural odd marking as there is a big difference. The ones i have are wild caught with slightly different markings than the typical. Unfortunately hybrids are showing up and if they are easier to breed than non-hybrids they will prevail for tank raise members of the species.
 

fishorama

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Oh yes, I thought I was clear on the differences between wild "novel" or "unusual" marking variations on clown loaches & those awful hybrids...the worst is the first

New loach pics.. - Page 2 - Loaches Online Forum go to last post

Czech "histrionica" update. - Loaches Online Forum

Botia almorhae - from the Czech Republic.... - Loaches Online Forum

OK, I may not sleep well tonight with those awful clown loaches dancing behind my eyes! But I think we had to tell, jake. It's more than a fin coloration, or interesting spots. That first fish is just plain obscenely wrong! The others are not unless you look very close & know loaches.
 

jake72

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An emersed buce preparing to bloom:
dd1.jpg

Plants sucking up the heat in my discus aquarium:
dd2.jpg
and a pile of bored loaches giving me the eye while i'm trying to work:
bored.jpg
 
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