to feed feeders or not

[russjet]

i dont think we have genuine feeder fish that you can buy from fish stores in uk nothing labelled that way anyway i think live food is illegal not sure though

wont be having any predators in my tank the neons would be history in quite short order i think if i can get a stable environment in the first place :thud:

we may eat meat after having gone to the slaughterhouse and i have been to one, but we dont grab one of the cute little lambs and shove it down our throats raw, no we prepare and cook it first (or get someone else to do it )

my sixteen year old son thinks it would be cool but my little ones would not be happy to see our new fishies being lunch

emphasis on peaceful community in my house,enough fighting between the five children,personally i find it disturbing thinking of dead fish becoming lunch let alone live ones

considering how careful people are about their water parameters i would assume that feeding live fish would be a big NO unless you know for sure the source is sound, outside fish are a risk i would be very worried to introduce into my tank if it was required.

after my rant i think i want a vegetable casserole for dinner

 

[babypimpin]

I always give them dirty looks when im at the fish store cuz i know there all chicken @##$. I give them that your sick /weird vibe and make em feel guilty because they are guilty, Its just one of the things I like to do to entertain myself when im at the LFS, I just cant help myself...

I'm sorry to say this...but if you did that to me and i had no idea who you were, i would have kindly asked you to step outside and would have to take care of you there...im sure im not the only person that would react like this...but if you got a problem with what i do, you better be man enough to say it to my face and deal with the consequences...if not you should direct ur dirty looks elsewhere...

geoffgarcia asked why I labeled the protein/veggie dichotomy false - I did so because feeders are commonly pathetic nutritionally as well as bacteriologic/parasitic/any other infectious agent agent avalable nightmares; also that not all prepared foods are entirely plant based (which has already been pointed out since I posted earlier). My whole issue with commercial feeders - which I tried to point out - is their biohazards coupled with being nutritionally poor.

I'm still quite a noob at this...but heres my shot

i agree with feeders bacteriologic/parasitic...basically..they are an easy way to introduce diseases into a tank...

That is why i alway sgo to one place to buy feeders...a local LFS that i personally know...and know they take excellent care of their fishstock..including their feeders...if you think about it, any fish at any store has a chance of introducing dieseases into your tank...so there really shouldnt be an argument here...

secondly how are feeders pathetic nutritionally? I feed my feeders both flake food as well as pellets. Both these foods are meant to feed fish, and thus out of the jar are full of nutriotion arnt they? i mean if they wernt, the argument here about any fish can learn to eat pellets would fail...if you feed ur carnivorous fish pellets directly, how is it any different if he gets it indirectly from a feeder fish who has eaten them?? in my opnion, feeder fish would not only be just as healthy for for ur fish on a health standpoint, but also a mental standpoint because it would be closest to what it is like in natural conditions.

On the side not, i have tried to take my Red Snakehead off feeders many times...I've starved him for up to 4 weeks at a time with absolutely NOTHING to eat...every couple days i would dangle some beefheart with some fishing line in the water...and he never even gives it a sniff...i even settle the beefheart on top of his head...and he pretends like its not even there...when i throw it in the tank...and come back half an hour later...the beefheart is stil in tact sitting on the gravel untouched...(i then have to take it out obviously)
so yeah...ive tried weaning my snakehead off feeders..not like i havnt...it just doenst seem to work...4 weeks is a hell of a long time with no food...yet he still doenst get desparate to eat...

 

[750t]

Here is my 2 cents. I would not dream of feeding my fish feeder goldfish from the lfs. No way. But I do use feeders. I raise guppies and if you know anything about guppies evetually you will have too many. So thats how I get rid of the excess. So my advice to anyone who has a fish that they feel requires feeders,raise your own. Whether it be guppies or mollies,convicts anything that reproduces quickly. That way you know what your fish are getting.

 

[StreetCypher]

secondly how are feeders pathetic nutritionally? I feed my feeders both flake food as well as pellets. Both these foods are meant to feed fish, and thus out of the jar are full of nutriotion arnt they? i mean if they wernt, the argument here about any fish can learn to eat pellets would fail...if you feed ur carnivorous fish pellets directly, how is it any different if he gets it indirectly from a feeder fish who has eaten them?? in my opnion, feeder fish would not only be just as healthy for for ur fish on a health standpoint, but also a mental standpoint because it would be closest to what it is like in natural conditions.

Well, in the case of feeder goldfish they're mostly cartiledge and high in fat. Also, they have a growth inhibiting hormone in them.
In the case of nutrition, the difference is the feeder has already metabolized all the nutrients in the food, not passing it on to the preadator. Its not like nutrients are stored exactly as they're eaten. The fishes body breaks down and converts it into what it needs.

 

[Seaman]

Its not cruel to the feeders its cruel to the fish eating them.
ALL species of fish can learn to eat non live foods if taught early.
95% of fish eating feeders can be converted to non live if the owners wanted to do this and sometimes it takes nearly staving them to death but they will take them.
Question for you how long did you hold back feeders? I'm sure your well fed fish would go OVER a month with out any food and be just fine or did you try for a few days maybe a week.

Ok on your first post you say ALL fish can be trained off feeders, now you say 95% can, so which is it all or some......from the experience I have had, ambush predators can be one of the hardest to get off live foods, because they want to sit and watch it for a good while before they try and eat it. Seccond off i have tried starving both nandus's for 6 weeks with absolutely no success....and IMO starving a fish is cruel....if the fish wants to only eat feeders then ill let him be happy and eat feeders....his life will be just as good as it would have been in the wild. You really seem like hte type that knows it all....so lemme just stop now while im in your all knowing presence.

So tell me...if I raise the guppies myself how is it cruel to the predators to feed them feeders?? Thats a very absurd statement.

 

[Seaman]

I think its just downright cruel to the animals to feed feeder fish
to another fish. Some people argue that its cheaper to raise and feed
guppies to there fish or to buy feeder goldfish, some people say well thats what they do in the wild... I think some people brag about it as if by them having feeder fish makes them somehow a better person or something, but to me its just giving in to unconscious cruelty... Im glad that you let your customers know that fish can live perfectly well on pellet food and frozen foods.

This is the typical kind of response from someone who buys feeders and feeds live fish to there fishies....They dont like there cruel ways pointed out to them because they dont think there doing anything wrong, plus theyll adamitlly defend there positions as if i would really listen or care as to what a cruel person has to say...I always give them dirty looks when im at the fish store cuz i know there all chicken @##$. I give them that your sick /weird vibe and make em feel guilty because they are guilty, Its just one of the things I like to do to entertain myself when im at the LFS, I just cant help myself...

First off you sir are a tool. If some one EVER treated me like this at a place of business where I am the customer...you would more than likely not have a job. Seccond off....what are you like 14 years old?? because you sir need some respect for others, you will find in life that you dont agree with everthing that others do...pick your battles, because your gonna pick the wrong one with the wrong person at some point and get your *** laid out. And you saying "as if i would really listen or care as to what a cruel person has to say" That just proves my point that you are a tool....I seriously have never run into anyone as close minded. So I'm assuming you're a vegetarian?? Because if not, you need to get a clue.... And your last statement....that really makes me think YOU are a mean person, does it make you feel good to give people dirty looks or talk behind their back?? I'm serious just you wait....you'll end up doing that to the wrong person and get your *** handed to you. lemme ask you this...does it make you feel good how you treat people....obviously, otherwise you wouldnt do it.


Wow.....thats all i have to say.

 

[daveedka]

the difference is the feeder has already metabolized all the nutrients in the food, not passing it on to the preadator.

How exactly does a feeder guppy metabolize food in less than 10 minutes? You gut load the fish before you put them in the tank, and then the predator eats them food and all.


Milky,
Get a grip. And just for the record, I am not Chicken s#@T either and I am certainly far less guilty than someone who owns a predator and doesn't have the good sense to let them hunt. Let me know when you are in columbus, Fridays would be best that's when I need some stress relief.
Dave

 

[daveedka]

i'm not against preditor fish someday my dream fish is a big RTC and I WILL 100% for sure feed sunfish I catch out of a lake its not about the type of fish you chose thing its about the reason you bought it and how you care for them.

Are you trying to debate the use of Feeders, or the use of LFS goldfish? Frankly I'm confused. Or are you realizing that you stepped into a subject that you don't know enough about to speak on ?
Or were you just trying to get everyone riled up? You did accomplish that if nothing else.
So far you have turned on most things that you have said. So some clarification would be nice. If we want to talk about ephite snobs with a close minded view of how other people should act and think, you are doing a good job of opening that debate as well. Maybe you should spend a little time out in the country. You might find out that most rural people are far more intellegent and practical than you believe, You might also find out that there is more tha one way to skin a cat, And just because you know nothing about other methods doesn't make them wrong. Lastly you may find out that people who wear flannel drive pickup trucks and guzzle beer on the weekend Don't really care what your opinion is, those of us on the boards used to care what your opinion was, but I can't really say that I personally think much of it anymore.
Dave

Lastly, I would rather have goldfish from the LFS than fish from the local streams and pond any day. But honestly neither one will be going in my tank.
Dave

 

[daveedka]

My apologies to anyone except SFF and Milky whom I may have offended with my comments.
Dave

 

[StreetCypher]

How exactly does a feeder guppy metabolize food in less than 10 minutes? You gut load the fish before you put them in the tank, and then the predator eats them food and all.

I was under the impression that Babypimpin wasn't talking about gutloading. I thought what babypimpin was talking about was that the feeder would be treated like a regular fish. Once daily feedings and all and then thrown in to get eaten whenever.