Why hasn't anyone bred a smaller goldfish?
- Thread starter PuppyFluffer
- Start date
lol
I personally wouldn't want smaller goldies, but I can see the benefits of it.
But I am not investing thousands into mini goldfish, I will be investing thousands into pit bull rescue
I know..it just struck me as kind of funny..in a sad sort of way.
The size on the tag did say Max size 6" and recommended a 20 gal tank size. I make sure to do research elsewhere before breaking down and buying ANYTHING at pestmart...so overpriced and un/under informed.
Remember that the goldfish's wild ancestor was quite a large carp. Ranchu and lionheads are about as small as you get, and compared to the wild singletail carp, they're tiny - but it simply may not be possible to get any smaller. Not all genetic codes are as pliable as those of canids.
Also remember that although there may have been some smaller individuals produced during that long breeding history, a small size is usually regarded as a goldfish that won't thrive, produce the desired color or shape, or live very long. So the young fish that stayed small were usually culled.
Also remember that although there may have been some smaller individuals produced during that long breeding history, a small size is usually regarded as a goldfish that won't thrive, produce the desired color or shape, or live very long. So the young fish that stayed small were usually culled.
And even the lionheads and ranchus can hit 10".
I guess it is not THAT easy. It would be hard to get a large population going, but the actual process is not that hard, just pick the ones that are naturally smaller.
Colors are usually the first to change in any domesticated species. Then it is usually body modifications (round, longer fur or fins, etc.). Overall size has to be specifically bred for.
In the end it would just encourage people to keep them in even smalle tanks than they already provide, so I am not worried about them coming out with a dwarf goldfish.
I guess it is not THAT easy. It would be hard to get a large population going, but the actual process is not that hard, just pick the ones that are naturally smaller.
Colors are usually the first to change in any domesticated species. Then it is usually body modifications (round, longer fur or fins, etc.). Overall size has to be specifically bred for.
In the end it would just encourage people to keep them in even smalle tanks than they already provide, so I am not worried about them coming out with a dwarf goldfish.
Larger goldies are much prettier than smaller goldies IMO, lol. That said, if someone bred a smaller goldy, I would want one.
The genetics for smaller or larger goldfish is probably extant in the population. Goldfish have a highly polymorphic genome so these types of traits logically are around.
Breeding for a specific trait is not that difficult unless there are deleterious traits closely (less than 1 cM) or directly linked (epistatic, etc). The size of the population and the time that it would take depends on on the inheritance of the trait. Simple dominant/recessive traits can be bred for with very low numbers (4-8 individuals per generation) in 2-3 generations. Complex inherited traits can take larger populations and/or creative selection techniques and many years/decades of time.
The problem with goldfish size is the environmental variable. Screening for large fish or very small fish can be hampered by less than optimal growth conditions. The largest goldfish on record was grown in Norway. Does this mean that they need the colder weather to grow larger? The smallest breeds are lionheads and ranchus. Is this because the shape of their bodies inhibit their ability to synthesis nutrients appropriately? Smaller fish might also have slower growing fry. Could these fish be selected against by competition from larger fry? Is there a limit to how large a fish can grow? At what age does a goldfish stop growing. Some species of fish grow constantly their entire lives where others reach a max size and stop. A very simple question is often very difficult to answer.
In my opinion people bred a smaller goldfish Because you can't see a small fish very well in a pond. Having goldfish in aquariums is a relatively recent invention when compared to the length of time that we have been breeding this species.
Breeding for a specific trait is not that difficult unless there are deleterious traits closely (less than 1 cM) or directly linked (epistatic, etc). The size of the population and the time that it would take depends on on the inheritance of the trait. Simple dominant/recessive traits can be bred for with very low numbers (4-8 individuals per generation) in 2-3 generations. Complex inherited traits can take larger populations and/or creative selection techniques and many years/decades of time.
The problem with goldfish size is the environmental variable. Screening for large fish or very small fish can be hampered by less than optimal growth conditions. The largest goldfish on record was grown in Norway. Does this mean that they need the colder weather to grow larger? The smallest breeds are lionheads and ranchus. Is this because the shape of their bodies inhibit their ability to synthesis nutrients appropriately? Smaller fish might also have slower growing fry. Could these fish be selected against by competition from larger fry? Is there a limit to how large a fish can grow? At what age does a goldfish stop growing. Some species of fish grow constantly their entire lives where others reach a max size and stop. A very simple question is often very difficult to answer.
In my opinion people bred a smaller goldfish Because you can't see a small fish very well in a pond. Having goldfish in aquariums is a relatively recent invention when compared to the length of time that we have been breeding this species.
