Your UGF experiences

[jm1212]

Sand is much more natural. Almost every habitat our fish come from has a slower current than would allow for a gravel substrate. It is also much cleaner since it does not require any vacuuming. With adequate flow debris doesn't collect on the surface. With inadequate flow the debris is visible on the surface, not hidden in the substrate. So you know you need to clean it.

It is much harder to remove extra debris from under an undermaintained UGF that it is to just clean out an undermaintained HOB or canister.

Have you used sand? How many tanks? For how long?

It is not ideal in every case, like I already said, but there are very few cases where it is not better than gravel. These exceptions are generally just big fish like cichlids that spit the sand into the filters or something like a large catfish that kicks up a lot of sand into the filters every time it moves. But there are many fish that should be on sand instead of gravel. These include: stingrays, cories, loaches, many cichlids, goldfish, and many others. There are even many cases where gravel is much worse than sand and can even pose a lethal threat to many types of animals (like goldfish, axolotls, and many other fish that can get gravel caught in their mouth or become impacted is they swallow any).

you need to turn over sand, otherwise it compacts and forms gases that can kill your fish and make you sick. now that is a fact.

you can't say that one substrate is better than another. its 100% based upon preferences. corydoras, loaches, cichlids, and goldfish do fine with gravel. in fact, some cichlids should be kept with gravel because they kick up sand so much that it would burn through the filter quickly. goldfish will eat sand. in fact, every fish that i have had eats my sand at some point, but none have choked upon a piece of gravel. also keep in mind that my angelfish has been in a barebottom, gravel, and sand tank. it only eats the sand. o have also yet to hear of a goldfish choke on gravel. sure, they are not the smartest fish, but they are not stupid enough to eat gravel.

 

[Kuthoht]

Actually bottom dwellers do like eating the stuff that accumlates on the bottom of the tank whether it be poo or uneaten food. I know this because I've seen many species do this very behavior. Its exactly what they are evolved to do.

I think you're trying to place human ideas on preference onto a fish. I feed my bottom feeders sinking pellets. This doesn't mean they dont also eat pretty much anything they can find in the gravel.

Unless you can actually speak to your fish and ask them their preference I dont see how you can say they dont like something.

 

[reptileguy2727]

Actually my tanks are very well aquascaped and I still do not get areas of debris buildup. I do not simply ignore it or not look for it, it isn't there. Please do not tell me or others how my tanks are, I am the only one who can know that.

Sorry, the link to my blog doesn't work. If anyone wants it please PM me.

 

[jm1212]

Sploke:
The best form of mechanical filtration is pressurized so that it actually forces the substrate through. This is the case with canisters, but not with UGFs or most HOBs.

The main idea with UGFs is that the entire gravel bed serves as a filtration media. The problem is that this requires the entire gravel bed to be exactly the same thickness. Water will follow the path of least resistance so if a fish digs around in one spot and makes that area thinner, most of the water will go through this area and completely bypass the rest of the gravel bed. In addition to this when debris does collect in the gravel bed it covers any nitrifying bacteria under that debris and cuts off flow to the area.

If someone asks about UGFs this requires the use of gravel. I am simply letting them know that they may want to reconsider their choice of gravel.

My articles are written based on thirteen years of experience in the hobby, the experiences of all the fishkeepers I have ever communicated with, my knowledge as a Biologist, and general science. They are not based on unsupported opinion.

Not true. the gravel bed does not need to be the same depth all throughout the tank. it can vary and the filter will still be just as effective. unlike sand, gravel does not compact and restrict water flow.

 

[jm1212]

Actually my tanks are very well aquascaped and I still do not get areas of debris buildup. I do not simply ignore it or not look for it, it isn't there. Please do not tell me or others how my tanks are, I am the only one who can know that.

Sorry, the link to my blog doesn't work. If anyone wants it please PM me.

just because you can't see it doesnt mean that it isnt there.

 

[jm1212]

Actually bottom dwellers do like eating the stuff that accumlates on the bottom of the tank whether it be poo or uneaten food. I know this because I've seen many species do this very behavior. Its exactly what they are evolved to do.

I think you're trying to place human ideas on preference onto a fish. I feed my bottom feeders sinking pellets. This doesn't mean they dont also eat pretty much anything they can find in the gravel.

Unless you can actually speak to your fish and ask them their preference I dont see how you can say they dont like something.

fish eat anything that they can fit in their mouths, but that does not mean that they like to eat it. it is good that you are feeding your bottom dwellers, but just because they eat junk on the bottom of the tank doesnt mean that you dont have to clean the bottom of the tank as well. thats like getting a fish just to eat algae.

 

[reptileguy2727]

Go on to an advanced goldfish only forum and ask if anyone has had a goldfish choke on gravel. Your experience is very valuable, but just because it is your experience does not make it fact.

The issues with sand have everything to do with the type of sand and not just sand in general. Small grained sand and uneven grain sizes can cause compaction. Malaysian trumpet snails will keep it clean and aerated for you. The sand that I use is just large enough to stay aerated and prevent toxic anoxic pockets of hydrogen sulfide producing bacteria from developing. This is why I suggest one brand of sand and not just any sand (especially not non-aquairum sands). Again, sand being kicked up and getting into the filters has a lot to do with the type of sand. Larger heavier sands will not have this problem. In addition, there are few fish big enough to do this. I have had sand with oscars, peacock cichlids, a 20" tiretrack eel, bichirs, and many other fish. I have never had any issue of health based on the sand at all nor have I ever had any issue with sand in the filters.

If eaten sand is much safer and more likely to pass through the digestive system than gravel. If you have an individual fish that for some reason develops a habit of swallowing sand then yes, you may not want to use sand.

Again, what sand have you used? In how many tanks? For how long?

Which fish have you watched eat and actually swallow feces?

 

[Temeraire]

Fish poop isn't generally known for its nutrition.

 

[J double R]

Actually bottom dwellers do like eating the stuff that accumlates on the bottom of the tank whether it be poo or uneaten food. I know this because I've seen many species do this very behavior. Its exactly what they are evolved to do.

I think you're trying to place human ideas on preference onto a fish. I feed my bottom feeders sinking pellets. This doesn't mean they dont also eat pretty much anything they can find in the gravel.

Unless you can actually speak to your fish and ask them their preference I dont see how you can say they dont like something.

fish dont eat poop. period.

 

[reptileguy2727]

Debris is visible. If the only debris in my tank is invisible than I guess my substrate and filtration combination is very effective.

The sand keeps the debris on top, the flow keeps it moving until the filters grab it. So you are right, there is lots of debris, but it is all in the filter media where it is supposed to be for easy removal.

Again, not all types of sand will compact and cause problems.