BEWARE OF Arizona Aquatic Gardens! [Archive]

125gJoe

04-09-2003, 10:26 PM

BEWARE of www.azgardens.com
I recieved, dead on arrival shrimp, plants, and very sickly Flagfish. Tried e-mail and phone attempts to remedy this extreme problem to no effect...
I warn others to take their hard earned money elsewhere!!

I have a couple pics to show the 'results' of 'trusting' these people. I even talked to a guy ('Peter') that said, "Don't worry I'll take care of you..." ..over the phone right as the order was placed. So, it's not like ordering without a 'real' person on the other end...

When shrimp arrive dead, some look like Old Bay Seasoning was sprinkled on them - and cooked - before you even open the bag, (I'll leave the horrendous smell out of it..) there's a real serious problem!!!!

Pics soon.. real soon....

:mad: about $200 loss... including time and effort... and our own clean-up here..

Thanks..

http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif

125gJoe

04-09-2003, 11:14 PM

Here's the pics.... I couldn't get good pics of the smaller shrimp and Flagfish.. Brazil Yellow Belly Glass shrimp - $2.29 ea. Malaysian Rainbow shrimp - $1.88 ea. (60 shrimp total)

And, I'd like to say, Pete, thanks for "taking care of me".. Too bad you don't answer e-mail, or your phone, even if it's only on Mondays that you have time to "help out" your customers.

http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL59/715239/1510346/23150951.jpg
http://pic4.picturetrail.com/VOL59/715239/1510346/23150933.jpg

GEV83

04-09-2003, 11:33 PM

Man that sucks. I thought the same was going to happen to the pleco I got but no It managed to survive and is alive and healthy. Thank Timmain. Yeah I dont normally name my fish but he had it named Finn so its name is Finn and my Jag is the only fish I ever gave a name and Its name is Jagster I even have a E-mail adress using her name. I cam up with the name since one shes a Jag and to I live where theres Three rival gangs so she's a gangster so I named her Jagster. Jagster the Gangster. This was before I knew it was a girl. But yeah Sorry about your loss of shrimp fish and money.

nvision

04-10-2003, 3:24 AM

what a revolting nightmare that is. i'm sorry to hear about your loss. for what it's worth, this will help shed some guiding light for those who are in constant search for decent service and value in online commerce.

superstein61

04-10-2003, 9:43 AM

Sorry to hear that Joe - guess that just confirms all the bad posts I had read about Arizona Aquatic Gradens out there

ChilDawg

04-10-2003, 11:07 AM

That's supposed to pass for a shipment of live animals? Thanks for showing it to us, so that we never buy from a place like that.

cdawson

04-10-2003, 11:21 AM

SUE! SUE! SUE!!!!!!

Take that jerk straight to the bank 80gjoe.

People like that should be jailed on site.

GEV83

04-10-2003, 12:34 PM

You cant sue they say that its not there fault if you get DOA's that you have to take it up with the carrier or deliverer. So they have a nice slick way to get away with it.

slipknottin

04-10-2003, 12:46 PM

I ordered $150+ worth of plants from them awhile ago. I think the biggest plant I got was 1/4"

BBN

04-10-2003, 1:01 PM

Anyone else getting hungry for Red Lobster?

Sorry. I've heard bad things about them also. Now I see it w/ my own eyes. Thanks for the warning.

punch

04-10-2003, 1:53 PM

I bought fish and they came ok, but then I bought some MTS
and never got them, 1st they said they didn't have any, then they said they shipped out, I never got them and then they basicely ingnored me. So... Yea I don't order there anymore.
Theres other places.

beviking

04-10-2003, 2:03 PM

That does suck Joe! No one from AZ was at the auction I went to so I couldn't lash out on your behalf.

isaac newton

04-10-2003, 7:42 PM

You hear anything back yet. Dam that must suck.. Im lucky to have about 5 Fish retailers around where i live... 3 in which are major corporations that sell fish for a very competitive price and dont have to rely on online ordering...

wetmanNY

04-11-2003, 8:40 PM

80gJoe, it's a shame this transaction has worked out so badly for you, when other people have had such good reports of Arizona Aquatic Gardens lately, like this poster last week at Aquatic-Plants Digest: http://fins.actwin.com/aquatic-plants/month.200304/msg00075.html

RENEGADE

04-11-2003, 10:18 PM

you should be careful and look for more good commets. it could be a advertisment(sp?)

JamisonBWolsh

04-11-2003, 11:21 PM

80gJoe,

I would be carefull what you say about the website. There was another website owner that not only sued some people making comments on a forum, but the forum host site as well. It was www.PetSwarehouse.com that sued and all the offending party did was make some comments about that website (which were true as far as i know).
I dont know anything in the legal way, but just a heads up.

125gJoe

04-12-2003, 12:09 AM

Jamison, I already thought about that, and I will go to court, and win, and shut them down... How dare they RIP People Off -- and so many!!

We have PROOF of a company that is irresponsible and should not be allowed to act like this!!

Lucky they are in Arizona, due to the fact I would bve there in person, demanding my hard earned money back ---- and asking how they can go on with "business as usual" with all the compaints!!!???

How many more will this place rip- off?? Personally, IT SUCKS.

slipknottin

04-12-2003, 12:12 AM

Add your name to the growing list. :p

http://www.tucson.bbb.org/commonreport.html?compid=4000548

isaac newton

04-12-2003, 1:06 AM

Hey make sure to keep us updated if u really do go to trial!!!

wetmanNY

04-12-2003, 1:58 AM

slipknottin has given a link to the Arizona Better Business Bureau. Joe, you should file a standard complaint with them, and it goes on their record. That will make the company more interested in resolving the whole thing so they can list it as "resolved."

A lot easier than a lawsuit.

Dragon_Lord_Tia

04-12-2003, 3:12 AM

my supplyer braught be a shipment of imbreed fish and i couldnt sell them so the went to the sara,barras and oscars but i wrote a letter to the company and i got a new shipment 2x bigger and alot healthyer for free:D try that out

odessa

04-12-2003, 9:35 AM

A.Z. gardens stil owes me a70 bucks worth of Amano shrimp from about a year and a half ago, I "ve emailed probably fifty times called about ten times and never got a response from them.
80g. Joe didn't you inquire about their company on the plant forum awhile back? I believe I tried warn you.

ChilDawg

04-12-2003, 10:35 AM

And, if they don't resolve it, trial is a good option. What they have done is bulls*** and they should know it either way.

Heady

04-12-2003, 2:27 PM

There *IS* something you can do if this happens to you!

There are 2 kinds of cards (this is very important!): Debit cards and Credit cards. Debit cards may or may not carry the VISA or Mastercard logo, but whether they do or don't, they zap the money directly out of your checking account. Credit cards are different, they bill you for the amounts charged to the card.
Always pay for major and/or online purchases by real credit card, not by debit card!

If you paid by *credit card* and did not receive your shipment, or they didn't get your order right, and the vendor does not respond to your complaint, you have a legal right to call your credit card company and put the item in "dispute". This means the credit card company does not pay the vendor until/if you can work it out with the vendor. You must contact the credit card company within 60 days of the transaction to put an item in dispute.

If you paid by *debit card*, you have NO legal rights to get your money back once it is zapped out of your checking account. That's right, NO LEGAL RIGHTS! The bank you have your debit card with might be really nice and try to work it out with you, but they are NOT required by law to do this.

For more information, visit:
http://www.clarkhoward.com/library/tips/chargebacks.html

PikeLee

04-13-2003, 12:40 AM

I"m really sorry to hear about your situation. That really sucks. I'm about to purchase some plants online, and I"m kind of wearing on the whole situation just for that particular reason.

Did you purchase it through credit card. My AMEX is pretty good with Scams like that. They once handled a 3000 + Computer that I ordered online. The company was going bankrupt, but was still taking orders, like mine. I reported it to AMEX, and they took care of it right away. Didn't pay a cent.

Good luck with your situation and many thanks for the warning.

125gJoe

04-14-2003, 7:17 PM

http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
I paid by credit card, and recommend others' to use credit cards so as not to get ripped off - stop the payment if needed....

At this time, still no reply from AZGardens.com

And, I don't expect any -- unreal.....

Cirean

04-15-2003, 10:22 AM

Subject: Re:
Date: Monday, April 14, 2003 7:46 PM

EVERYONE gets taken care of here. We are not in this business for 15 years to take advantage of someone's hard earned cash. NO WAY! We are a decent company ran by good, and kind people.

Out of the 75,000 plus customers we have there are going to be people that have problems with us. One funny thing though, if this person has already been taken care of, which I hope they have, most complainers won't take the time to go back to a website to mention a good outcome, and bad news hurts us. I hope that person does or did get a resolution. This sounds very isolated! But they should be warned about slander! Most people already know what petswarehouse.com did for slanderous remarks to people online.

Chaz
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon
To: azgardens@azgardens.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2003 10:20 PM

I was considering ordering from you but..... I read on a web site youre lack of
customer service. sry :(
BEWARE of www.azgardens.com
I recieved, dead on arrival shrimp, plants, and very sickly Flagfish. Tried e-mail and phone attempts to remedy this extreme problem to no effect...
I warn others to take their hard earned money elsewhere!!

I have a couple pics to show the 'results' of 'trusting' these people. I even talked to a guy ('Peter') that said, "Don't worry I'll take care of you..." ..over the phone right as the order was placed. So, it's not like ordering without a 'real' person on the other end...

When shrimp arrive dead, some look like Old Bay Seasoning was sprinkled on them - and cooked - before you even open the bag, (I'll leave the horrendous smell out of it..) there's a real serious problem!!!!

Pics soon.. real soon....

about $200 loss... including time and effort... and our own clean-up here..

Thanks..

I hope you did get taken care of like he said.

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 10:34 AM

Originally posted by Cirean
Subject: Re:
Date: Monday, April 14, 2003 7:46 PM
....... ....... ........ .......
.... .... .......... ........ .....
I hope you did get taken care of like he said.
http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif

Kinda strange mixing in "slander" with "proof"....
No - I have not been taken care of.

I have learned to look for real customer service and do more research... I have lost some trust do to this sad problem.

Everyone remember and do your research, and order with a credit card for your own protection.

punch

04-15-2003, 10:38 AM

and on that pet wharehouse slander case, I believe the guy was aquited or something. Didn't they say it was free speech or something?

ChilDawg

04-15-2003, 10:53 AM

Cirean, why did you E-mail the guy the whole story? Couldn't you have just said that you've heard lots of complaints...or just not talked with them at all? That's almost like tattling, and I'm not sure I feel comfortable seeing that you did that. Let them handle Joe's case as they will, but I wouldn't recommend getting yourself involved in case they do try something litigious with Joe.

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 10:58 AM

http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
Thanks Punch --- all I'm doing is telling the truth about some "company". Funny how rudeness is very quick to come about in certain situations.. Like......

I just got 2 e-mails from this company and I can't believe them calling us 'rude' from our e-mails to them. Far from rude, but only wanting our hard earned money back.

If anyone is interested, I will post copies of the e-mails. THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU DON'T NEED TO HEAR AS A CUSTOMER....

ChilDawg

04-15-2003, 11:01 AM

Let's see 'em, Joe! **** them and the horses on which they rode in here...and let's see exactly what they have to say when trying to be real rather than trying to assure a prospective customer!

PikeLee

04-15-2003, 11:03 AM

This is a forum where people share their experiences with others. If they had a bad experience from bad service, they should be allowed to do so. 1st amendment. And if they had a bad experience, there’s nothing wrong with warning fellow members of an organization to BE AWARE. Critics do it all the time.

Slander is usually a false statement isn’t it? If so, this is not slander. Just some guy, actually more than just one guy, who just had bad service.

There are many sites out there that post their reviews from customers. Whether it is positive or negative. Instead of putting effort toward a lawsuit, they should focus more on “Customer Satisfaction”. These are ethics that have been lost a while ago. Hence the reason for much support of good businesses.

I can understand a business owner being upset if the statements were false. But if the statements were true, he should put his efforts toward something else, such as being a good Business Man.

Again, best of luck 80gJoe.

ChilDawg

04-15-2003, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by PikeLee
Slander is usually a false statement isn’t it? If so, this is not slander. Just some guy, actually more than just one guy, who just had bad service.

Nail, Head, PikeLee, big hit. Libel and slander cannot be charged if there is truth in written and spoken word. Keep those E-mails, Joe, you might need them if these people go the Pet Swarehouse (or whatever they are) route and try to nail you for "false" comments.

Cirean

04-15-2003, 11:45 AM

Uh Childawg not quite sure why you are so uneasy with my emailing them, I was interested in ordering from them until I read what happened to joe and I was curiuos what there response would be. Any time a company tells me how big they are ,ie 75,000 customers that to me is a sure tell sign they are not sorry for what they did.

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 11:51 AM

Originally posted by 80gJoe
http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
Thanks Punch --- all I'm doing is telling the truth about some "company". Funny how rudeness is very quick to come about in certain situations.. Like......

I just got 2 e-mails from this company and I can't believe them calling us 'rude' from our e-mails to them. Far from rude, but only wanting our hard earned money back.

If anyone is interested, I will post copies of the e-mails. THIS IS A CLASSIC EXAMPLE OF WHAT YOU DON'T NEED TO HEAR AS A CUSTOMER.... Here are the e-mails..

#1. From AZgardens:
Since my last email, I got this one below. You don't seem like a very nice or understanding person. I prefer to deal with customers that understand losses do occur. Remember this hobby is a luxury not a necessity. We are willing 100% to work this out with you, you need not be so aggresive.

We guarantee live arrival but NOT after you place them in your tank, since we don't know what your water conditions are, we can't guarantee after that. If you are using any type of product to treat ich or that is harmful to invertabrates, you will waste them! If we were selling less than healthy shrimp, everyone would have had a problem thee same week you did. This is totally isolated. I will refund a fair amount of the losses you had, and we come into agreement with.

Try some kindness in your emails in the future. Please. It makes life so much easier!

Peter

----- Original Message -----

To: azgardens
Sent: Saturday, April 05, 2003 10:46 AM

Peter,
Most of the smaller shrimp did arrive alive, but within hours of getting into the tank, and yes I did acclimate them properly, they were all dead, I expect to see a credit for those shrimp also. I am sorry for you and I both that this transaction has not gone well.
Total for all shrimp: $68.70
$56.40
$125.10
I will expect to hear from you by Tuesday the 8th of May. If I have not, I will disput this with the credit card company.
Thank you,

I DON'T SEE MY RUDENESS. I DO SEE THIER RUDENESS. WHO WANTS TO BE TREATED LIKE THIS????

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 11:57 AM

http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
Here's the second e-mail...

#2. From AZGardens:

Do you want me to try and reship this this week? Or just a credit to the card? Let me know. Sorry for the DOA's

----- Original Message -----
From: joe
To: azgardens@azgardens.com
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2003 9:26 AM

Peter,
They are all still dead, even tried to a bubble wand to help, still dead. Of the smaller ones 3 arrived dead. I can live with that but all 30 of the larger......I do want a credit for the 30 shrimp. Not an instore credit. I want it removed from my credit card. Please respond when you can.
Pictures attached.
Thank you,

I THOUGHT IT WAS CLEAR AS TO WHAT'S IS NEEDED....

(what now, a 'run-around'???)

ChilDawg

04-15-2003, 12:05 PM

You are not out of line with what you had said...they are extremely defensive because they know that they are in the wrong. Shouldn't be hard to prove!

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 12:19 PM

http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
ChilDawg, yes....

And, that kind of defensiveness in no way justified.

Plain and simple - return my money. The product was delivered on time. Experience at packing the product may have helped, but I'm not at all sure about that!

Dabbler II

04-15-2003, 3:29 PM

You have to look at it from the companys point of view
First how many people are out there just to get stuff for free. You always have to keep your eyes open for this if you don't you will be taken advantage of (how many people buy something from large department stores wear it for the evening, then take it back the next day for a full refund, it does happen) This is harder to control with all the internet and catalog busnesses now. So the have there procuders they have to follow. It seems to me from the e-mails you poasted that they were trying to keep you happy by crediting you for the doa shrimp and/or a new shipment of shrimp.

It is just like another post I saw on here that some one "got a great deal" on some fish or something they were mis marked or the fish person didn't reconize the fish properly and got them for $5 bucks insted of the $12 bucks they should have been. You don't see any one standing up for the company there they just laughed it off and bought a few more of the same fish for the discount price, not caring that they are sc**wing the company.

But for the record saying you will contact the credit card company on the second e-mail is a little unjust a little tackt would have gone a little further.

Just remember this statment (and I not talking about anyone here it is just words of wisdom) An honest busness is hard to find, honest customers are even harder.

Dabbler II

04-15-2003, 3:36 PM

Hey Joe E-mails 1 and 2 should be switch around they are in the wrong order ( ie dates):D

superstein61

04-15-2003, 3:53 PM

Sure, you can look at it from the company's perspective, BUT the company should NOT discount customer service.

Based on this experience of Joe's plus others I read about, i WILL NEVER order from AZGardens.

Let me give you 2 example2 of above and beyond customer service.

1. I ordered some supplies from www.drsfostersmith.com. Two items were out of stock, with estimated dates back in stock in 5 and 7 days respectively. They have a policy of shipping orders within 24 hours. Well, my initial order (the non-backordered items) for some reason did not ship until after 5 days when the first backordered item came in. I called at about 7 days wondering where the order was. The CSR looked it up, saw that the shipping was delayed because of an error on their end and automatically offered to credit me the shipping charge. I didn't even ask for any credit.

2. I made my initial purchase of about 16 fish from www.alloddballaquatics.com All the fish did well except for a pair of blue rams that died about 3 and 5 days fater I had them. I visited them again to buy a few more fish about a month later and Eric and Al were asking me how my fish were. i explained they were doing well excpet the Blue rams who died. They said, here have another pair of Rams - gratis. I did not ask nor expect that at all - after all I had the fish for 3 and 5 days. But they said that shouldn't have happened, try another pair.

That is customer service. That will get customers coming back. NOT what the actions and emails from AZgardens that Joe / others showed above will do

Dabbler II

04-15-2003, 4:27 PM

Correct me if I am wrong but the first e-mail said on apr 4

Do you want me to try and reship this this week? Or just a credit to the card? Let me know. Sorry for the DOA's

No mention of instore credit or anything just a reship or money refunded. Seems that things were on a good track.

I think they tried but someones hair got out of wack on both sides
Well I guess we will have to wait till the 8 of MAY to see if they come through for Joe. Personaly I would have waited till then before posting They just may come through for him yet

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 7:47 PM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
Correct me if I am wrong but the first e-mail said on apr 4 ... ... .....Well I guess we will have to wait till the 8 of MAY to see if they come through for Joe. Personaly I would have waited till then before posting They just may come through for him yet First - my wife made a typo on the e-mail. It was supposed to be - we need a reply by April 8th, not May 8th. These are 'live' animals we are talking about, and a recent algae prob we needed to help on >>shrimp and the fish would have helped..... For a business that has soo much experience, and not to reply to their customers on a "timely basis", is a bad idea IMO.....

Again - this individual at AZGardens, has posted rude e-mail in response to a customers problem.. Way to go!! ---- that makes a lot of sense in customer satisfaction.. ( total sarcasm on the last statement )..

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 7:52 PM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
Hey Joe E-mails 1 and 2 should be switch around they are in the wrong order ( ie dates):D http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
It really doesn't matter which order the e-mails are posted......

The guy at AZGardens responded at the same time to both e-mails. I don't see any rudeness at all on my part.

Dabbler II, sorry if any confusion is there..

Let me quote the audacity, ane rudeness of someone's attitude.
>Next Post<

slipknottin

04-15-2003, 7:58 PM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
You have to look at it from the companys point of view

You want any companies point of view? Satisfy the consumer. Any company that fails to create a satisfying transaction bewteen them and the consumer is a failure.

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 8:10 PM

Slipknottin, that is good business sense, (common sense too) and I'm so glad you mention that.

This is directly from the e-mail I got from AZGardens:

."......I prefer to deal with customers that understand losses do occur. Remember this hobby is a luxury not a necessity. ......"

And now I'm so stupid not to realize what a hobby is and a necessity! That makes my money his luxury - expect no timely response as he in not reposnsible to the customer. When the customer is the luxury, there's no business.

I guess I'm supposed to realize from them it is a "hit and miss" deal going on.. I'm not in a 'crap shoot' type of odds on what I expect from online businesses - And I have spent several hundreds online (that's dollars, for those who may consider a business - a hobby and a luxury. The dollars I earn are my neccessity!)..

slipknottin

04-15-2003, 8:23 PM

Remember Joe, you hold the advantage. The consumer always drives the business, not the other way around.

When was the last time you walked into a store and the owner started negotiating with you to attempt to get you to pay more!

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 8:41 PM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
You have to look at it from the companys point of view
First how many people are out there just to get stuff for free. .......

But for the record saying you will contact the credit card company on the second e-mail is a little unjust a little tackt would have gone a little further.

.....
http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
I'm not sure about online theft from customers.. Sure, there must be some. My point is what I am dealing with. To me, this is very sad when it comes to shipping live products. Customer service is almost non-existent in this case.

As fas as me being 'unjust' is your opinion against my feelings and opinions on this matter. And that's fine too.. For the record, I will do my best to help others avoid this type of problem. All I can do is post fact and my humble, honest opinions.

Dabbler II

04-15-2003, 8:42 PM

hey slip read the whole post I just through out some ideas and some wisdom if companys didn't question some complants because of dishonest people they also would be out of business.
the busness is there to serve you but if you don't get satisfaction from your sales man then go to his or her boss don't start ranting till all options have been exhusted.

and on the point of the e-mail are posted in a wrong order if you read the second one first according to the dates they fully offered to resend the order or credit your card

I know you got a shipment of half dead shrimp and you are ticked and it cost big bucks and you want your cash back hey I understand

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 8:44 PM

http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
OH Yeah --- 11 days for a reply....

Guess it could be acceptable for some - not me.

Dabbler II, this is your quote:
"the busness is there to serve you but if you don't get satisfaction from your sales man then go to his or her boss don't start ranting till all options have been exhusted."

Dabbler II, I dealt directly with the owner.

slipknottin

04-15-2003, 8:48 PM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
hey slip read the whole post I just through out some ideas and some wisdom if companys didn't question some complants because of dishonest people they also would be out of business.
the busness is there to serve you but if you don't get satisfaction from your sales man then go to his or her boss don't start ranting till all options have been exhusted.

Any decent company would take a hit in profit to make a customer satisfied. If you create meaningful relationships with customers you are almost guranteed their return business, and they're recommendation of your business to friends and family. You upset one customer, youve not only lost all his future business, but youve lost the business of many people.

Sorry... Im a business major, I love this stuff :D

Dabbler II

04-15-2003, 8:50 PM

Call the manager, talk to someone else, mabe your sales guy is new and is still fumbling around, or mabe he is just bad at what he does. hey if some one overcharges you for fixing your car you don't stop with the desk clerk move up the ladder

125gJoe

04-15-2003, 8:55 PM

http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif

Read above posts as you are posting at the same time...

I may have to re-quote... Logging off for now..

I just want to clarify..

:)

CharlyBaltimore

04-15-2003, 9:05 PM

Originally posted by slipknottin
Remember Joe, you hold the advantage. The consumer always drives the business, not the other way around.

Many companies are still in business despite endless lists of complaints from their customers. When companies get big enough, driving out the competition, they no longer have to satisfy the customer.

(cough)microsoft(cough)

slipknottin

04-15-2003, 9:07 PM

Originally posted by CharlyBaltimore

Many companies are still in business despite endless lists of complaints from their customers. When companies get big enough, driving out the competition, they no longer have to satisfy the customer.

You mean monopolies? Illegally run corporations? If microsoft was allowed to keep doing what it was doing, its only a matter of time before a decent competitor comes along and takes a large chunk of their market share. Especially all these people that are complaining. The problem in these sort of cases is that the big corporation is using its size as a preventive measure against other businesses. Either by cutting price so it takes a hit and kills competition, or with other methods such as buying competitors, or even really illegal things like sabotage. The NTC stepped in with microsoft as it believed microsoft was a monopoly, they held most of the market share and had little competition. Wether this had any effect on microsoft is another issue altogether...

CharlyBaltimore

04-15-2003, 10:14 PM

The large companies in this case don't have to be monopolies. Take AT&T for example. They have hundreds of thousands of complaints from customers who were overbilled and then treated unfairly. As one small example, take my worst and final dealing with AT&T. They tried to tell me once that they never received my payment, even though they had already cashed the check, that had my account number written right on it. When I called them on it, I was transferred to someone who would not give me their name and who used offensive language about me personally. What customer service. I will not go back.

Maybe other people are lazy and just don't want to stick up for themselves. Maybe they LIKE getting treated like crap, or maybe it hasn't happened to them (yet). Whatever the reason, companies like this manage to stay in business.

Microsoft is a poor example. They were given a slap on the wrist, nothing more. It is government-approved monopoly, just like the electrical, phone, and cable companies.

ChilDawg

04-15-2003, 10:25 PM

Umm...AT&T was at one point a monopoly, and probably still feels that it can act that way with impunity.

slipknottin

04-15-2003, 10:28 PM

Originally posted by CharlyBaltimore
The large companies in this case don't have to be monopolies. Take AT&T for example. They have hundreds of thousands of complaints from customers who were overbilled and then treated unfairly. As one small example, take my worst and final dealing with AT&T. They tried to tell me once that they never received my payment, even though they had already cashed the check, that had my account number written right on it. When I called them on it, I was transferred to someone who would not give me their name and who used offensive language about me personally. What customer service. I will not go back.
Sure they have to be monopolies in order for that to work, you could easily have switched phone companies. If there are enough problems, then they loose massive amounts of market share and need to restructure.

Maybe other people are lazy and just don't want to stick up for themselves. Maybe they LIKE getting treated like crap, or maybe it hasn't happened to them (yet). Whatever the reason, companies like this manage to stay in business.
And the consumers still have the power. Only when a company is a monopoly on a good that you need can they control your decisions.

Microsoft is a poor example. They were given a slap on the wrist, nothing more. It is government-approved monopoly, just like the electrical, phone, and cable companies.

Well, microsoft is hardly govt approved. They did get sued and taken to court and were made to split up. But your right, the only monopolies that exist are govt payed for services.

CharlyBaltimore

04-15-2003, 10:40 PM

AT&T is getting away with it right now and they are not a monopoly. They have to compete against Sprint/MCI, 10-10 numbers, and wholesalers such as BigZoo.

Fortunately for them, customers don't check their charges and/or don't stick up for themselves if they do find an error. Also fortunately for them, MCI has almost as bad customer service.

This is why I switched to BigZoo. Reliable service, and wholesale minutes at 2.9 cents a minute from any land line in the US. If you call from a pay phone, it goes all the way up to 3.9 cents a minute. And they have never mis-charged me.

slipknottin

04-15-2003, 10:41 PM

There only getting away with it because customers are allowing them to. They are not forcing customers to do what they want.

Dabbler II

04-15-2003, 11:08 PM

Well I have re-read all the posts in this thread ( a few times) and I didn't know that you had already dealt with one of the owners. they have only hade 7 complantes in 36 months all seemed to have been resolved (one delayed but still resolved) So for your sake I hope yours does too. You have to admit that the shape of the shrimp is a little on weird side (cooked) was it caused by the packaging or was it done by the shipper with improper storage (placed by a heater????) or was the shipment tampered with. Peter might be checking this out before anything is finalized to see where he should place the blame. You might give it some time another week maybe for it to show up on your card, and yes he could be very busy and he will fix the problem with your account.
Good luck

slipknottin

04-15-2003, 11:12 PM

Only 7 complaints that have been reported to the BBB...

The BBB is really losing popularity. It used to be that whenever you felt any company cheated you it was the first thing you did, but I dont hear of people going to the BBB as much anymore.

ChilDawg

04-15-2003, 11:14 PM

Originally posted by slipknottin
It used to be that whenever you felt any company cheated you it was the first thing you did, but I dont hear of people going to the BBB as much anymore.

Slip, I don't think that you're old enough to say things like that! :D J/K, but it did look kinda funny!

slipknottin

04-15-2003, 11:24 PM

I remember filing a complaint with AOL a good 6 or 7 years ago. :eek:

probably the stupidest thing theyve ever seen... a 13 year old kid filing a complaint because an AOL floppy disk broke inside his computer and caused the computer to break. :D

ChilDawg

04-15-2003, 11:33 PM

How'd that work out for you? (I'm guessing that I already know, but humour me.)

125gJoe

04-16-2003, 12:46 AM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
Well I have re-read all the posts in this thread ( a few times) and I didn't know that you had already dealt with one of the owners. they have only hade 7 complantes YES - THE Owner... The 7 complaints are those that actually take time and do it.
Only through the BBB, (Better Business Bureau).

Many people just don't have the time to follow-up on 'rip-off' companies through the BBB (Better Business Bureau). Believe me, I have some time ..

It's a fact! I will always try and help out others with their aquariums! I WILL ALWAYS point out bad service - or worse! Don't even try the "slander crap angle"...

As some have seen, I have helped out others' by mentioning the major 'aquarium stuff' and the catalogs they offer. Those catalogs are not from "fly by night" rip - off people; they've been around awhile..

It's 12 days now, and I still feel 'bad'.... (no call, ONE RUDE E-MAIL, No Refund).

That is, my experience with AZGardens.com

How was your day?

125gJoe

04-16-2003, 2:23 AM

You know, -- it shocks me that a 'business' -out there- would actually tell me this.....

And, to expect DOA (DEAD ON ARRIVALS)! ....... I'M LoST at WORDS to DESCRIBE that comment!!

Sure there can be some, but to 'expect them'.. HuH?? WHaT??
Wow, if I only got this statement in e-mail first!----None of this would be posted.

All of the shrimp are DEAD.

slipknottin

04-16-2003, 8:33 AM

Originally posted by ChilDawg
How'd that work out for you? (I'm guessing that I already know, but humour me.)

It didnt... AOL didnt pay for anything. dirty rats :mad:

Dabbler II

04-16-2003, 9:15 AM

Have you investagted if the problem happened with the shipping company. Have you ever looked at a loading dock or an aiport warehouse. Have you filed a claim with them for posably those guys mistreating your package of live animals. How many hands has it gone through before it made it to your door?

You only mentioned that you were dealing with the owner a few posts ago. I guess I could have saved a lot of typing if this was mentioned earlier other than some guy named Peter

superstein61

04-16-2003, 9:16 AM

Originally posted by slipknottin

Any decent company would take a hit in profit to make a customer satisfied. If you create meaningful relationships with customers you are almost guranteed their return business, and they're recommendation of your business to friends and family. You upset one customer, youve not only lost all his future business, but youve lost the business of many people.

Sorry... Im a business major, I love this stuff :D
I agree wholeheartedly - see my two examples above of ABOVE AND BEYOND customer service. These companies will always get my business for their caring attitude

superstein61

04-16-2003, 9:20 AM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
Well I have re-read all the posts in this thread ( a few times) and I didn't know that you had already dealt with one of the owners. they have only hade 7 complantes in 36 months all seemed to have been resolved (one delayed but still resolved) So for your sake I hope yours does too. You have to admit that the shape of the shrimp is a little on weird side (cooked) was it caused by the packaging or was it done by the shipper with improper storage (placed by a heater????) or was the shipment tampered with. Peter might be checking this out before anything is finalized to see where he should place the blame. You might give it some time another week maybe for it to show up on your card, and yes he could be very busy and he will fix the problem with your account.
Good luck
Boy Dabbler, if your address wasn't in Canada, I would have suspected by now that you work for or are good friends with the folks at AZgardens.

Please, their customer service was clearly poor. Why are you trying to deflect the blame elsewhere?

Dabbler II

04-16-2003, 9:38 AM

I am not trying to deflect blame, I am trying to let people see the whole picture. To many times at this and other forms the blinders are on and there is only one way of thinking "I am right they are wrong" type of thinking. Every story does have 2 sides. I am also a business owner and I deal with customers on a daily basis. I am just giving my 2 cents worth and when something goes wrong on my end I have to do the leg work to see where the problem went wrong IE shipping, staff or what ever. Yes for the time being Joe is out the 100 bucks or so But was it AZ'S fault or the main shipper or was some one else involved????? In busness you can't just hand money back to everyone who cries wolf, you have to investage, find the problem, then fix the problem. Otherwise you might as well close the doors to your shop.
Sometimes these things do take some time.

Dabbler II

04-16-2003, 9:56 AM

Hey Slip once you have your buisness major and have been doing buisness for 15 Years I think you will have a little different view(not trying to talk down to you just stateing a fact). You may have the book smarts but real life experance is where you realy learn. It prob won't hurt AZ if they refund his money and maybe send him a new shipment of shrimp (and for the record I would do this if it was my fault) but if you do this for everyone who say "I got dead fish" then people will take advantage of it. That is if you don't investagate first.

slipknottin

04-16-2003, 10:06 AM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
Hey Slip once you have your buisness major and have been doing buisness for 15 Years I think you will have a little different view(not trying to talk down to you just stateing a fact). You may have the book smarts but real life experance is where you realy learn.

Uh, Ive been working at my family run business for the past 8 years. Find me any person who owns a successful business and doesnt think satsifying the customer is their most important goal. This is not "book smarts", this is the only way to successfully run a business.

Dabbler II

04-16-2003, 10:17 AM

I didn't say you don't satisfy the customer but you don't bow to every whim

beviking

04-16-2003, 11:38 AM

Dabbler has a point on bowing to every whim. I spent a number of years in the restaurant business and...come on, how easy is it to say you're food is cold, etc...to get a reduced bill or whatever!
HOWEVER, customer satisfaction has to be a priority and IMO, AZ is responsible to find out why that shipment was bad. Refund Joe the $ and take it from the guilty party. Seems AZ would have a reliable shipping co. to begin with.

slipknottin

04-16-2003, 2:10 PM

Bow to every whim? I hardly believe sending him dead shrimp is his responsibility.

If your company is responsible for a mistake, you do everything you can to fix it. If there is a chance that someones food is cold, you fix it. If you know for a fact that it isnt cold then you dont. You always need to give the customer the benefit of the doubt. AZ gardens isnt doing that.

Dabbler II

04-16-2003, 6:11 PM

Slip I am not questioning if Joe is honest and yes he should be compsated BUT by who. I do beleve you can chose who you want to ship with with AZ. Also once it leaves AZ's shipping dock they have lost controle of there product that is why there is the disclamer for the shipping. If it was a shipping problem you should be chaseing the shipping company not AZ as it isnt AZ's fault if the shipper mishandled the package that is where the shipper takes responsablity. Like I said earlier you have to find out where the package was mishandled.
Another thought if you buy an aquarium for "Jim's aquarium mail order shop" . He boxes it up with sytrofoam and everything he loads it up on Bob's trucking to get it to you. Then it arives at your door you open the box and find nothing but broken glass. Who do you go after? BOB or JIM? You see I would go after Bob first chances are it broke on the trip to your house, if I couldn't get any where with with Bob then I would talk to Jim.

I am just saying chances that AZ filled Joes order with Dead and cooked shimp is highly unlikely (you have to be dence to do that) you have to look at all other options of where this package went.

This could be what Peter is thinking, that Joe is trying to rip him off because of the "unreal" shape the fish and shrimp did arrive in.

H8Parrotfish 13

04-16-2003, 7:00 PM

I LIVE IN ARIZONA!:D

Where are these guys located?

slipknottin

04-16-2003, 7:32 PM

Once again you dont know facts or how this works.

The shipper, in all cases, needs to file the complaint with either Fed Ex or UPS.

It does not matter to Joe if their was shipping problems, and AZ gardens knows this. They need to refund his money regardless. If they believe its a shipping problem, then they refund his money then file a complaint with fed ex or UPS.

And regardless of how nicely you say it, your saying AZ gardens is doubting a customer. A big no no in the business community, and that is probably the reason they have any complaints, resolved or not, on the BBB.

isaac newton

04-16-2003, 7:45 PM

While monopolys are unbenifical to consumers (and stagnates economic growth) , still remember that the laws of supply and demand still rule.. For example oil.. When the prices skyrocket, demand goes down via more fuel frendly cars.... If microsoft were to increase the OS to 10000 dollars, sales would drop considerably hence losses...

slipknottin

04-16-2003, 7:58 PM

Originally posted by isaac newton
While monopolys are unbenifical to consumers (and stagnates economic growth) , still remember that the laws of supply and demand still rule.. For example oil.. When the prices skyrocket, demand goes down via more fuel frendly cars.... If microsoft were to increase the OS to 10000 dollars, sales would drop considerably hence losses...

Thats not always true. If it is a good you need the demand wont change. You will pay any amount of money for that good. Evidence? If you lived in Arizona nowhere near any source of Freshwater, had no car, and the only water nearby was being sold for $50 a gallon. Youd buy it.

Dabbler II

04-16-2003, 8:44 PM

You are the shipper You are the one requesting the shipping and paying for it. IE consignee

Arizona Aquatic Gardens (AAG) is not responsible for damages due to shipper's neglect, delays, breakage, freezing, or burning. These claims must be filed with the carrier. We do not accept responsibility for damages or DOA's occurring en-route. All such claims must be filed with the carrier by consignee. An immediate report to the carrier is necessary

But on a second note with FED EX:

We will ONLY guarantee your plants, your order, and your satisfaction when your order is shipped Fedex next day. Any other shipment method is NOT.

Joe did you ship with FED EX?

slipknottin

04-16-2003, 8:51 PM

No, the shipper is the person shipping the product. I care less what AZ gardens claims, the complaint must be filed by both the shipper and the person who recieved it. You can not put a claim through on your own. And if it did by chance go through, unless it was a COD, the money will go back to the company or person that shipped the product.

And you do know any box that looks mangled or broken would be reported by Fed Ex on delivery? Most every company says not to accept shipment of a box that is visibly damaged. Im pretty sure this is common sense anyways, of course your going to have the fed ex guy take note of a box thats smashed up and leaking.

In all cases, Fed Ex will only accept complaints filed by their customer. In this case, unless Joe payed fed ex directly and payed Az gardens, AZ gardens is Fed Ex's customer.

Dabbler II

04-16-2003, 9:08 PM

Ahhh I see you haven't goten to Contract Law yet. Well once you place an order you enter a contract (and this is with everything not just AZ) those are the terms and conditions. But thats ok I will end this now because it seems we both have a differance of opion. I have said my peace. I will say that you have made some good points and I think I have also. I just wanted people to keep there thinking caps on. Good luck Joe I hope you get satisfaction

Silp those quotes came from AZ's site: IE electronic contract

slipknottin

04-16-2003, 9:13 PM

I never said AZ was responsible to pay for it if its Fed Ex's fault.

I said they need to file a complaint with fed ex, as they are Fed ex's customer. Joe is not, and they will not accept a complaint from him, the only thing they will do is write down if they notice the box is visibly damaged on delivery.

If they believe this is a shipping problem (which they have no proof of BTW) then they need to refund his money, and file a complaint with Fed Ex so their money can be refunded.

And yet again you attempt to bash my intelligence. If you want to make a point, you should attempt to do it by proving facts, not insulting people. Your campaign of ad hominum is really quite insulting.

Dabbler II

04-16-2003, 9:37 PM

Slip if I did insult you I do apologize it was not ment that way. The facts I have stated and posted are to the best of my knowledge.

slipknottin

04-16-2003, 9:38 PM

heh, its cool, I get enough flak on a day to day basis that Ive developed quite thick skin. ;)

superstein61

04-16-2003, 11:36 PM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
I am not trying to deflect blame, I am trying to let people see the whole picture. To many times at this and other forms the blinders are on and there is only one way of thinking "I am right they are wrong" type of thinking. Every story does have 2 sides. I am also a business owner and I deal with customers on a daily basis. I am just giving my 2 cents worth and when something goes wrong on my end I have to do the leg work to see where the problem went wrong IE shipping, staff or what ever. Yes for the time being Joe is out the 100 bucks or so But was it AZ'S fault or the main shipper or was some one else involved????? In busness you can't just hand money back to everyone who cries wolf, you have to investage, find the problem, then fix the problem. Otherwise you might as well close the doors to your shop.
Sometimes these things do take some time.

Uhhh sorry Dabbler - but you are wrong. In the spirit of good customer service, the business should take care of the problem and then if they want to try and shift blame and recover from their shipper, they can do that later. Guess you never heard the old adage that for every problem that occurs, the person complaining will tell 20 folks. I am sure on this board alone AZgardens has lost more than that in potential customers. its much better to fix the problem upfront. And no, it does not take time to do that.

PS - before you tell me to run my own business for 15 years - Please note that over the course of my career, I have managed a $15 million business for 7 years and was Vice President (with two of my responsibilities being Customer Service and Purchasing) of a $300 million business for 4 years. I will tell you that you would get failing grades on customer service - and if you handled a problem on something you sold me like AZGardens has to Joe, you would not get another piece of business from me.

superstein61

04-16-2003, 11:44 PM

Originally posted by slipknottin
I never said AZ was responsible to pay for it if its Fed Ex's fault.

I said they need to file a complaint with fed ex, as they are Fed ex's customer. Joe is not, and they will not accept a complaint from him, the only thing they will do is write down if they notice the box is visibly damaged on delivery.

If they believe this is a shipping problem (which they have no proof of BTW) then they need to refund his money, and file a complaint with Fed Ex so their money can be refunded.

And yet again you attempt to bash my intelligence. If you want to make a point, you should attempt to do it by proving facts, not insulting people. Your campaign of ad hominum is really quite insulting.

Slip, you are exactly correct. It matters NOTHING what AZGardens has on their website. They are the shipper - Joe pays AZgardens who is responsible for the bill to FedEx or whomever. As a result, AZGardens is responsible for filing any claim with FedEx and FedEx after investigating would make any restitution to AZGardens directly.

thus AZGardens needs to be the one who makes restitution to Joe - and then if they believe it is FedEx's fault, deal with Fed Ex.

me thinks Dabbler for all his years in business knows little about how FedEx and UPS work with respect to chargebacks

karfixer

04-17-2003, 12:50 AM

I have bought from AZ gardens and was quite happy with the condition and quantity of the product-plants only-that I recieved. What Joe recieved was a disaster and how they have dealt with it is really poor. That being said, I live in So.Cal., so the flight from AZ is less that the drive time from LAX to my home. I personally wouldn't order live animals from a company across the country due to the problems that arise in shipping that kind of distance. Az Gardens is clearly aware of this and still insists on selling to customers far away and so should bear responsibility for the loss. IMHO they should re-consider their shipping policies. Excessive shipping deaths don't do their business any good, nor their customers and most importantly - the livestock that perishes on the way. Joe, I hope things work out for you. Steve

Matak

04-17-2003, 3:20 AM

I think the problem here and with AOL (as Slip previously mentioned) is not just lack of accountability, but fear of precedence. Correct me if I am wrong, but if a company takes a certain course of action on a given problem, they are then legally expected to follow suit on all problems of a similar nature. If AOL had gone to any length to fix his computer, then they would have been open to anybody (sleazy or legitimate) else that had a similar problem trying to claim for losses. Same with Joe. If they gave it to him, they would have to give it to everybody that made a (sleazy or legitimate) DOA claim. This is why owner manuals have 10 pages of safety buried into 2 pages of instructions and software licences are 20 pages long.

I think in Joes case they should have taken the loss. Sure, they may lose a % point or two in profits, but a bad rep is almost an unrecoverable postion.

Besides that, they didn't know who they were dealing with. :D

nvision

04-17-2003, 3:59 AM

i would have to concur with the shipping issue; it's the seller's responsibility to file claim for any damaged item, not the customer's.

case in point: if i order from Dell and they end up shipping me a broken monitor, they don't tell me to take it up with fed ex (or whomever). and even if i do contact fed ex, they'll simply agree to help me, while cracking a big laugh at me behind the phone.

what's good service? Dell did not ship me a broken monitor, but the item was delivered to a wrong address (shipper's fault). i contacted Dell and they proceeded to ship me another monitor that same day, while they simultaneously investigate the individual who blatantly received the misdelivered order.

now, i'm not suggesting that AAG should send out a new batch of shrimps while they investigate who's cooked the first batch... just trying to state that good service is what brings the least amount of burden to the customer.

Dabbler II

04-17-2003, 10:07 AM

Ok, sorry one last time.
You have all brought up what a company should do moraly in order to keep a good reputation with there customer base......now look at the LEGAL side, look at the contract you have approved (by buying from them), if you state in your e-mail that you want 100% live healthy fish upon delevery you have amended the contract and if they don't question your statment on your e-mail (paper trail) then they have to under contract provide you with 100% healthy fish. I have never had the argument on what they SHOULD do to be a good busness. If you read my posts you will see that I feel joe should get his cash back, and I have also stated what I would do if I was AZ. Companys protect themselves with these contracts they are legal and binding, read them. How many of you have acualty read the windows licence aggreament? For all you know it could say that Bill has the rights to all of your information on your computer. You have the right to change these contracts when you place your orders, make them work for you.
I personaly would not let the fed ex guy leave untill I have inspected the package inside, if I am receiving a shipment of live animals, so that there is a witness of the shipping company present and before you sign for it you can mark on the Waybill of damaged goods so they have a copy and you have a copy (paper trail). If you have done your part to protect yourself in these matters it would go alot easier.
Yes it is a pain but when you watch out for yourself you will win

Dabbler II

04-17-2003, 10:25 AM

Originally posted by nvision
.

case in point: if i order from Dell and they end up shipping me a broken monitor, they don't tell me to take it up with fed ex (or whomever). and even if i do contact fed ex, they'll simply agree to help me, while cracking a big laugh at me behind the phone.

Let see this one is easy you gave them an address of
nvision on the corner of 5 and Main st
They misslabled it to
nvision 12 and Last st
Of course they will ship a new one it was there fault, they have no recerver signuture and they didn't fulfill there end of the contract.
Yes they did send out a new monitor ( they knew that they would get the other one back to) so they were short stock on one monitor of a day or soor did they just redirect the mislabbled monitor to the correct address.
When Dell has there free shipping deals on then Dell is responsable for the shipping in all aspects but when you pay for shipping you are the cosingnee they are just acting on your behalf to get it out the door they are your agent on this order.

Dabbler II

04-17-2003, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by superstein61

me thinks Dabbler for all his years in business knows little about how FedEx and UPS work with respect to chargebacks
This wouldn't be a charge-back this would be a CLAIM for damaged goods

superstein61

04-17-2003, 10:52 AM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
Ok, sorry one last time.
You have all brought up what a company should do moraly in order to keep a good reputation with there customer base......now look at the LEGAL side, look at the contract you have approved (by buying from them), if you state in your e-mail that you want 100% live healthy fish upon delevery you have amended the contract and if they don't question your statment on your e-mail (paper trail) then they have to under contract provide you with 100% healthy fish. I have never had the argument on what they SHOULD do to be a good busness. If you read my posts you will see that I feel joe should get his cash back, and I have also stated what I would do if I was AZ. Companys protect themselves with these contracts they are legal and binding, read them. How many of you have acualty read the windows licence aggreament? For all you know it could say that Bill has the rights to all of your information on your computer. You have the right to change these contracts when you place your orders, make them work for you.
I personaly would not let the fed ex guy leave untill I have inspected the package inside, if I am receiving a shipment of live animals, so that there is a witness of the shipping company present and before you sign for it you can mark on the Waybill of damaged goods so they have a copy and you have a copy (paper trail). If you have done your part to protect yourself in these matters it would go alot easier.
Yes it is a pain but when you watch out for yourself you will win

I hope your business does not sell over the internet or via mail order - if it does, can you please give us the name of it so we can stay away from buying from you like the plague?

And remind me if I ever visit Edmonton not to buy anything from you.

your attitude toward customer service and doing the right thing is appalling

slipknottin

04-17-2003, 10:55 AM

Originally posted by Dabbler II

This wouldn't be a charge-back this would be a CLAIM for damaged goods

Call and ask Fed Ex. They only accept claims from their customer. The person who recieves the product is not their customer.

punch

04-17-2003, 11:02 AM

Packages rcvd of live goods should be checked before the delivery party leaves. That way goods can be refused.
If goods are refused they revert back to the shipping party and is again there responsibilitie. They would have to file the claim with the shipping company and you would (should)rcv. your money back. In most cases of shipments we may PAY for freight
but the shipping contract is with the "Company" So the company has to file claims of damaged goods. (I'm in shipping and rcving,
so I've had some experience)

Dabbler II

04-17-2003, 11:20 AM

Originally posted by superstein61

I hope your business does not sell over the internet or via mail order - if it does, can you please give us the name of it so we can stay away from buying from you like the plague?

And remind me if I ever visit Edmonton not to buy anything from you.

your attitude toward customer service and doing the right thing is appalling

Why would you stay away from me? I have stated in MY posts that I would have taken care of Joe more than once. My attitude toward customer service, I think is right on the money I was just letting you people know what to watch out for. Legaly these companys can tell you to get stuffed and you have nothing but this and other forums to complane at. I have givin information for you the consumer to make sure that YOUR dollar is protected. I was just trying help out and get people thinking BEFORE they sign that contract.
A persons word was worth something 10-15 years ago, peole took advantage of and now we have contracts for buying fish and plants. Dishonst people have brought this on and we have to live with it so do your part protect yourself, ask questions and get it in writing.

slipknottin

04-17-2003, 11:43 AM

Joe did everything he was supposed to. If AZ gardens believes its Fed Ex's fault, then they need to file a complaint with them as they were Fed Ex's customer. Nothing on AZ gardens website says differently.

And it is his inherent right, regardless of their contracts, to voice his complaints and if he chooses, to steer others away from that business.

beviking

04-17-2003, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by beviking
...customer satisfaction has to be a priority and IMO, AZ is responsible to find out why that shipment was bad. Refund Joe the $ and take it from the guilty party...

Be it the shipper or their own fault!

Dabbler, I see your point! Thanks for the info. It does seem that, like the warning on coffee cups that "contents may be hot", these are frivolous statements. Are they added so the company has a disclaimer that looks good to the bank and enables them to get a loan?? Certainly the overwhelming opinion (including yours) is that Joe should get his $ back from AZ. Maybe these statements are in place to scare off those that don't know better?

Dabbler II

04-17-2003, 11:58 AM

Hot coffee thats a good one MC D's lost big money cuz someone put Hot coffee inbetween there legs and drove of form the drive thru. Common sence should have won ( I know for sure I don't drive around with a flimsy stryo cup full of hot coffee between my legs) but she won and so they put caution contence may be hot. now they are covered. May be a few words but it saves them Millions now

slipknottin

04-17-2003, 12:02 PM

Mcdonald's was at fault...

http://www.lectlaw.com/files/cur78.htm

ChilDawg

04-17-2003, 12:16 PM

I heard that Mickey D's won the case, though, after the woman tried the same thing with another company.

Dabbler II

04-17-2003, 12:22 PM

I do stand corrected. But Hot coffee,stryo cup and putting it between my legs not a chance. Common sence prevales.
I don't even do it with a slurpee:D

slipknottin

04-17-2003, 12:24 PM

Thats why the jury knocked down her settlement, they found her "20% at fault". I wonder how they calculated that? :confused:

superstein61

04-17-2003, 6:18 PM

Originally posted by Dabbler II

Why would you stay away from me? I have stated in MY posts that I would have taken care of Joe more than once. My attitude toward customer service, I think is right on the money I was just letting you people know what to watch out for. Legaly these companys can tell you to get stuffed and you have nothing but this and other forums to complane at. I have givin information for you the consumer to make sure that YOUR dollar is protected. I was just trying help out and get people thinking BEFORE they sign that contract.
A persons word was worth something 10-15 years ago, peole took advantage of and now we have contracts for buying fish and plants. Dishonst people have brought this on and we have to live with it so do your part protect yourself, ask questions and get it in writing.

I am sorry but from your posts on the subject, I find your attitude towards customer service to be sorely lacking. Perhaps you would have taken care of Joe - but only after your long investigation trying to assess blame wherever. That is not good customer service IMO

Dabbler II

04-17-2003, 7:26 PM

Originally posted by superstein61

I am sorry but from your posts on the subject, I find your attitude towards customer service to be sorely lacking. Perhaps you would have taken care of Joe - but only after your long investigation trying to assess blame wherever. That is not good customer service IMO
From day one I was pulling for joe go back and read all 100+ posts but to each his own
As long as I made you think, and maybe, some who thinking of buying online will read and cover there end better then it was worth it.
( when you loose $85,000 US due to nit picking in contracts and cross boarder companys who say "SUE US FOR THE MONEY it will cost you more to sue us than the bill is worth" even tho the job was complete and done correctly the first time. You try to let people know how to pick them apart and to cover there a$$) It won't happen again!!

isaac newton

04-17-2003, 7:59 PM

Thats not always true. If it is a good you need the demand wont change. You will pay any amount of money for that good. Evidence? If you lived in Arizona nowhere near any source of Freshwater, had no car, and the only water nearby was being sold for $50 a gallon. Youd buy it.slip

Ahh yes you would buy it but demand would drop.. For example, if we sold it for 5cents a gallon, you would have surmounting demand for the product, if u increased it to 50$ a gallon demand would drop.. How so, poeple will start to conserve... That is what exatly happend in the oil embargo of the 70's. Gas prices went up people started to buy more fuel friendly cars.. But again, i am not in favor of monoplys because they are unbenifical to consumers.. Rationing out water to survive in your scenaro is quite true..

125gJoe

04-17-2003, 10:22 PM

http://gordon.sourcecod.com/images/flagicons/american_flag.gif
Thanks all for comments, concern, and advice!
I again e-mailed for the refund and kept it real short so as not to come off being so rude.. (I still don't know what rudeness was in my e-mail...) :confused: (very strange..)

slipknottin

04-17-2003, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by isaac newton

Ahh yes you would buy it but demand would drop.. For example, if we sold it for 5cents a gallon, you would have surmounting demand for the product, if u increased it to 50$ a gallon demand would drop..

That still doesnt apply. You need to drink water, and you need to pay them to get the water. You cant "conserve" drinking water. You will pay the $50 a gallon until you have no money.

superstein61

04-17-2003, 11:09 PM

Originally posted by Dabbler II

From day one I was pulling for joe go back and read all 100+ posts but to each his own
As long as I made you think, and maybe, some who thinking of buying online will read and cover there end better then it was worth it.
( when you loose $85,000 US due to nit picking in contracts and cross boarder companys who say "SUE US FOR THE MONEY it will cost you more to sue us than the bill is worth" even tho the job was complete and done correctly the first time. You try to let people know how to pick them apart and to cover there a$$) It won't happen again!!

Uhok if thats how you want to try and spin it - but look at your first post on the subject - here is some of what you said:

You have to look at it from the companys point of view. First how many people are out there just to get stuff for free.

But for the record saying you will contact the credit card company on the second e-mail is a little unjust

Just remember this statment (and I not talking about anyone here it is just words of wisdom) An honest busness is hard to find, honest customers are even harder.

then your next response after that included this support for Joe:

I think they tried but someones hair got out of wack on both sides Well I guess we will have to wait till the 8 of MAY to see if they come through for Joe. Personaly I would have waited till then before posting They just may come through for him yet

I could go on, but whats the use . . .

Boogiechillin

04-17-2003, 11:42 PM

Just in the interest of a constructive comment, if you're looking for a good place to buy plants, I strongly recommend Aquatic Plant Depot:
http://www.aquaticplantdepot.com/index.html

Very good customer service, good sized plants, and everything arrives alive and happy. No personal experience with AZ, but I wouldn't be inclined to shop anywhere else after buying from APD.

nvision

04-18-2003, 12:10 AM

Of course they will ship a new one it was there fault, they have no recerver signuture and they didn't fulfill there end of the contract.

what i meant by "shipper's fault" is fed ex, not dell. but anyways.

Dabbler II

04-18-2003, 12:25 AM

Originally posted by Dabbler II
Correct me if I am wrong but the first e-mail said on apr 4

Do you want me to try and reship this this week? Or just a credit to the card? Let me know. Sorry for the DOA's

No mention of instore credit or anything just a reship or money refunded. Seems that things were on a good track.

seems the company did try but somw wires were crossed

isaac newton

04-18-2003, 8:53 PM

Ahh but it does... When water is that high of a price and a large portion of the population cannot drink water.. Many die hence a lower demand for the product... Companys weather or not a monoploy are again still bounded by the laws of supply and demand.. When water is that high, the price is above equilibrum inwhich demand and suply curves meet on the graph.. If a company bumps the price they will have inventory.. THe goal of a company is sell everthing at a equlibrum price which all products are sold and profit is made...

thefishhelper:)

04-19-2003, 7:29 AM

sorry if i am off topic. first, I have heard accounts of some shrimps being cannabilistic ( though im no shrimp expert) to suggest ,maybe a few were popped off by themselves ,,while they were on par to your house 80galjoe(they were munching on eachother in otherwards) ...
maybe they would have shipped abit better to you with an addition of ammo carb.. or sorry... what sounds to really be the case is..they forgot the cold packs!! ( haha,perhaps they heard you wrong and thought you ordered the turkey FRIED shrimp muhahaha)..
ps and this is a large psss ( and i should point out since im not an avid poster,,i may lack merit..or you can invalidate me) but speaking from 15 yrs + plus exp..shipping fish..as well as importing them...anyways.. im just saying to 80galjoe..ok sure you can EXPECT 100% live guarantees.. but over the internet..cmon get real!!!..
one poster or 2 mentioned about dabbler,,that if it werent for his being in canada..that he sounds like an inside job( i.e :peter) ,, i can actually relate to dabbler..oh residing in edmonton myself,,i may even consider him my competition ahha..:)
sorry i am bad at going off and babbling i was just going to convey.. from my own personal hobby experience... DOA you can say..is just a part of the game..
anyways sorry guys if im incoherant or mixing all sorts of topics here.. but like ...i found this 7 page story(thread) rather delightful..informative in a sence...it seems to touch a lot on customer satifaction..
anyways no matter how much expertise you have in shipping..sometimes it IS hit and miss ..for your stuff to get to you there in one piece( or alive) ..hmmm at least when it comes down to it..i guess there are so many factors.. that it just boils down to quite abit ..
there was someone else who brought a good point up..about the .. and having 75,000 + customers for poor peter there..but seriously...it is just common knowledge.. THAT you can't make everyone happy.. someone was right if you change your policy to cater .then people are just going to take advantage of it.. then ultimatly someone also mentioned ..as you progressivly climb the sizes of a corporation..mcdonalds- microsoft... well then there are all sorta of disastified customers..who become lost in the shuffle etc..etc..
end of story...sorry for not posting much and when i do..its questionable muahhaha... sry if i went off topic..but no .i think i did ok...this is what you call confidence haha just joking..
don't worry joe.. things will work out for you in the end..even if you dont get your moola back.. if thats the case ..youll just have been had!! haha..but like...dont worry man.. never know when youll get a break...hahah.. maybe just slap peter another email..make it very long this time though... just to favor your situation.. try not to be RUDE (haha).. and like maybe you will get lucky..maybe you will get a refund..( i know instore credit is not your desire ..) hehe..sry i am abusing my post privaledge..there is such a thing as excessive and overboard..so i shall retreat...
not meaning to offend anyone..in fact i am just partaking my early morning humour..hope i made a few souls crack up,,i dont know..have fun everyone.. :)

hsifegroeg

12-01-2006, 1:08 PM

I ordered fish and plants two times. If you don’t mind the very high shipping cost, their plants are ok but fish orders are incomplete and poor quality. Both of my orders were only partly filled and YOU DO NOT GET A REFUND. If you’re lucky you may get an in-house credit (to have additional aggravation with your next order.) The quality of livestock is poor and only DOA’s are replaced. Compare this to “Petsmart” were you get two weeks warranty; granted they don’t have some fish that are available at AAG but there are several better mail order places.
The other problem is you can’t talk to anyone and left messages are ignored. If you send them an email it is also most often ignored. I filed a complaint at BBB and I encourage you to order somewhere else.
:mad: