Fishless Cycle in a Rut?

[RelentleZ]

Im very new at this and am learning as i read this thread. two questions and i dont mean to thread jack. im just trying to clarify things for myself so that i can further follow what you guys are saying.

1. after you see the nitrite spike, you are supposed to change 80-90% of your water to lower the nitrite/nitrate level from what i understand. then go back to raising your ammonia level and keeping it stable. ex: add till aquarium reads 5ppm of ammonia then recheck in 24hrs. if ammonia level has dropped, raise again to 5ppm. My question is, if you continue this cycle of raising and checking ammonia levels then changing water at high nitrite levels when do you know when you can add fish. What is the tell tale sign I guess?

and..

2. What is titer?

Sorry if these are lame questions but, im trying to keep up.

 

[RTR]

The KH may be close when freshly drawn, but the pH can be quite different from aged water. The aged figure will give the best prediction for where the tank can and should stabilze.

 

[aklaum]

Putting it simply RelentleZ (because I'm new too and that's the only way I can put it). You want to keep the ammonia between 3ppm and 5ppm during the cycle, checking it daily. What will then happen is this:

1. Eventually the ammonia level will start to drop, for the first week or so you may not need to add any additional ammonia beyond the first 5ppm. This means that the ammonia eating bacteria are starting to multiply.

2. Around this time you will also start to see a spike in nitrites. Nitrites are the byproduct of the ammonia eating bacteria. Don't do anything yet. Now you have a food source for the Nitrite eating bacteria. Just keep checking daily and keep that ammonia level constant.

3. The nitrite eating bacteria will also start to multiply, this may take longer than for the ammonia eating bacteria, it depends. Evetually the nitrite level will begin to drop as well.

4. The point you want to get to is where you are adding the ammonia and 24 hours later all signs of the ammonia AND the nitrites are gone. This means that the ammonia eating bacteria and the nitrite eating bacteria colonies are big enough to support a full fish load.

5. So now you have a tank full of nice bacteria that process the bad, but wait those nitrite eating bacteria produce nitrate. So at this point you have a pretty toxic concentration of nitrate in your tank. This is where you do your 80-90% water change, to rid the water of nitrates and make it a safe place for your new fish.

6. After you do your big water change, go get your fish.


Some other things I did to supposedly speed the process were:

1. Got a bunch of gravel from the LFS from a disease free tank. This was to jumpstart my bacteria colonies.

2. Cranked up the temperature to 85 degrees. This is apparently close to an optimum temperature for the growing bacteria.

3. Added a temporary power head to increase the oxygen levels in the water.


So from what I have read, water changes during the fishless cycle are usually not needed. My particular problem is that somehow the carbonate in my water got used up by the bacteria and caused a crash. I'm not sure at this point if my tap water is particularly low on the pH, KH scale but this may have been the cause.

So it seems if you know your water source is pretty high on the pH, KH scale then probably nothing to worry about. If you are unsure or know it is on the low side then doing regular 10-20% water changes during the cycle may be the ticket.

As I said, I'm new at this and only yesterday got to step 4 so please if anyone sees anything wrong with what I am saying above let me know.

 

[RelentleZ]

wow that is an excellent breakdown akalaum. everything is much more clear to me now. thank you so much.

 

[RelentleZ]

wow that is an excellent breakdown akalaum. everything is much more clear to me now. thank you so much. after that, i think im ready to start my first cycle after i decide what size tank to go with. my 10gal is too small.

 

[aklaum]

titration

a measured amount of a solution of unknown concentration is added to a known volume of a second solution until the reaction between them is just complete; the concentration of the unknown solution (the titer) can then be calculated.

So as I interpret this:

solution of unknown concentration = tank water

known volume of second solution = test kit

reaction = using the test kit

titer = concentration shown by test kit

 

[aklaum]

Glad I helped pave the way for a new tank

I'm just sharing it as I learn it.

 

[RelentleZ]

i was so excited... i managed to post twice too. :

 

[aklaum]

So now here's the question. If I hit tonight and my ammonia levels are zero and nitrites are zero then I am good to go.

I want to pick up the fish around 4pm tomorrow. Do I do my big water change tonight and not add any more ammonia? Will the bacteria be ok?

 

[RTR]

Unfortunately, the novice guidelines as posted by akalum do not mention monitoring pH or KH or better both during the process of fishless cycling. This thread would definitily re-occur if those posted guidelines were followed by an individual with low KH water, as was the case for the originator of this thread.

Water partials are not required during fishless cycling with high KH water. Water partials or KH supplement are very definitely required for folks with low KH water, and IMHO & IME to say otherwise is very bad advice (because seriously incomplete) to give on a public board. Just beacuse any particular individual's source water is sufficiently buffered for fishless cycling does not mean that everyone else's water will be the same. This is how the incomplete instructions were popularized originally - the beta testers and promoters all had moderately hard to hard water. That issue has been recognised for years now, and ignoring it is not a viable alternative.

A 24 hour window without ammonia addition is fine. Longer could have risks if no food source is provided.