Important News about Transporting CO2 Tanks

[coach_z]

I work a great deal with placarding vehicles and transporting explosives and I have all the rule books on it at work. I will let you know when I come back home.

awesome!

 

[ianab]

A local women was killed a couple of years back by a large CO2 fire extinguisher. It fell over and started discharging accidentally, spun around on the ground for a few secs until it hit something solid which broke off the valve and made it into a bottle rocket. Flew across a warehouse, hit her in the head and then existed through the side of the building and landed outside.

Even it wasn't illegal, it's still dangerous. Drop the thing when you are getting it out of the car, or get into a minor traffic accident and you could have an unguided missile in the back of your car.

A normal cylinder is pretty safe, but an exposed valve or regulator sticking out the top is pretty easy to damage. Fracture that and things get exciting really fast.

Ian

 

[MegDaig]

You're looking at a 7 lb metal "torpedo" (for a 5lb canister...more for larger) pressurized to over 1000 PSI. That's a ton of force. When you're relieving that pressure through a small orifice you'll have a high velocity jet that can propel these things unbelievable far. I've seen these things rocket a few football fields in length and punch holes through cinder block walls. There's no messing around with these things when they're charged. The best thing to do is transport your cylinder in a cooler or crate where you can secure it and prevent it from rolling around and tipping over. And also, secure them when in operation, the last thing you need is your dog/cat/kid/unknowing adult knocking this thing over.

 

[dundadundun]

they shot one through a couple cinder block walls on mythbusters.

that was controlled... and guided... and they mentioned that in the show... as well as the likelyhood of a perfect trajectory from an incident...

who is going to have one of these launching sleds in their car?...
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A local women was killed a couple of years back by a large CO2 fire extinguisher. It fell over and started discharging accidentally, spun around on the ground for a few secs until it hit something solid which broke off the valve and made it into a bottle rocket. Flew across a warehouse, hit her in the head and then existed through the side of the building and landed outside.

Even it wasn't illegal, it's still dangerous. Drop the thing when you are getting it out of the car, or get into a minor traffic accident and you could have an unguided missile in the back of your car.

A normal cylinder is pretty safe, but an exposed valve or regulator sticking out the top is pretty easy to damage. Fracture that and things get exciting really fast.

Ian

sure... it happens. the whole john bobbit (sp) story happens around a dozen times a year in the u.s. alone. doesn't stop people from cheating on their wifes though.

You're looking at a 7 lb metal "torpedo" (for a 5lb canister...more for larger) pressurized to over 1000 PSI. That's a ton of force. When you're relieving that pressure through a small orifice you'll have a high velocity jet that can propel these things unbelievable far. I've seen these things rocket a few football fields in length and punch holes through cinder block walls. There's no messing around with these things when they're charged. The best thing to do is transport your cylinder in a cooler or crate where you can secure it and prevent it from rolling around and tipping over. And also, secure them when in operation, the last thing you need is your dog/cat/kid/unknowing adult knocking this thing over.

it's pneumatic pressure with no guidance or backing plate, though. usually pretty insignificant, believe it or not. think about it... when your bicycle tire with 90 psi blows the entire side out... does it make you move? and that's a complete release of all the pressure at one time......

for tragedy to strike you'd need the moons, suns and planets all aligned just about.


random thought... there was a person killed when a donkey fell through someones bathtub quite some time back (if i remember it was the late 1800's)... there are ~1/2 dozen states that still have laws against having a donkey or horse in your bathtub.

 

[Sploke]

Regardless of the likelihood of an accident happening, if it is against the law, its a good thing to know. It wouls suck to drive someplace and have a store refuse to fill the tank, or get pulled over by a cop in a bad mood and get ticketed for it or something.

 

[rockhoe14er]

random thought... there was a person killed when a donkey fell through someones bathtub quite some time back (if i remember it was the late 1800's)... there are ~1/2 dozen states that still have laws against having a donkey or horse in your bathtub.

Darn i guess i'll have to get rid of my donkey. One person ruins it for the rest of us.

 

[coach_z]

Regardless of the likelihood of an accident happening, if it is against the law, its a good thing to know. It wouls suck to drive someplace and have a store refuse to fill the tank, or get pulled over by a cop in a bad mood and get ticketed for it or something.

:iagree:

I was about to state the same exact thing.
Can we keep this just a little more 'on topic'

 

[dundadundun]

sorry

back to topic...

my brother-in-law works for air liquide. he deals with this all day, everyday. i had him ask the drivers and his bosses today. his report states that you don't need to take the regulator off... but securing them and keeping them upright are necessary.

i could ask my pop too if you'd like. he's a hazmat certified trucker who's going for his crane license this month. should be new in his head...

federal d.o.t. regulations on class 2 (gas) materials on public highways... http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi...E=49&PART=177&SECTION=840&YEAR=2000&TYPE=TEXT

seems to me, not having proper niosh respirator and the regulator and responsible party within 25 ft of the tank during unloading may be more illegal than transporting with the regulator on. if i'm reading that wrong, let me know.

 

[dundadundun]

as well...

(g) Manifolding cylinders in transportation. (1) Cylinder manifolding is authorized only under conditions prescribed in this paragraph (g). Manifolded cylinders must be supported and held together as a unit by structurally adequate means. Except for Division 2.2 materials, each cylinder must be equipped with an individual shutoff valve that must be tightly closed while in transit. Manifold branch lines must be sufficiently flexible to prevent damage to the valves that otherwise might result from the use of rigid branch lines. Each cylinder must be individually equipped with a pressure relief device as required in paragraph (f) of this section, except that pressure relief devices on manifolded horizontal cylinders that are mounted on a motor vehicle or framework may be selected as to type, location, and quantity according to the lowest marked pressure limit of an individual cylinder in the manifolded unit. The pressure relief devices selected for the manifolded unit must have been tested in accordance with CGA S–1.1 and CGA S–7. Pressure relief devices on manifolded horizontal cylinders filled with a compressed gas must be arranged to discharge unobstructed to the open air. In addition, for Division 2.1 (flammable gas) material, the pressure relief devices (PRDs) must be arranged to discharge upward to prevent any escaping gas from contacting personnel or any adjacent cylinders. Valves and pressure relief devices on manifolded cylinders filled with a compressed gas must be protected from damage by framing, a cabinet or other method. Manifolding is authorized for cylinders containing the following gases:
(i) Nonliquefied (permanent) compressed gases authorized by §173.302.
(ii) Liquefied compressed gases authorized by §173.304. Each manifolded cylinder containing a liquefied compressed gas must be separately filled and means must be provided to ensure no interchange of cylinder contents can occur during transportation.
(iii) Acetylene as authorized by §173.303.
(2) For the checking of tare weights or replacing solvent, the cylinder must be removed from the manifold. This requirement is not intended to prohibit filling acetylene cylinders while manifolded.
(h) Cylinder valve protection. UN pressure receptacles must meet the valve protection requirements in §173.301b(c). A DOT specification cylinder used to transport a hazardous material must meet the requirements specified in this paragraph (h).
(1) The following specification cylinders are not subject to the cylinder valve protection requirements in this paragraph (h):
(i) A cylinder containing only a Division 2.2 material without a Division 5.1 subsidiary hazard;
(ii) A cylinder containing a Class 8 liquid corrosive only to metal;
(iii) A cylinder with a water capacity of 4.8 liters (293 in3 ) or less containing oxygen, compressed;
(iv) A cylinder containing oxygen, refrigerated liquid (cryogenic liquid);
(v) A Medical E cylinder with a water capacity of 4.9 liters (300 in3 ) or less;
(vi) A fire extinguisher; or
(vii) A “B” style cylinder with a capacity of 40 ft3 (1.13 m3 ) or an “MC” style cylinder with a capacity of 10 ft3 (0.28m3 ) containing acetylene.
(2) For cylinders manufactured before October 1, 2007, a cylinder must have its valves protected by one of the following methods:
(i) By equipping the cylinder with securely attached metal caps of sufficient strength to protect valves from damage during transportation;
(ii) By boxing or crating the cylinders so as to protect valves from damage during transportation;
(iii) By constructing the cylinder so that the valve is recessed into the cylinder or otherwise protected to the extent that it will not be subjected to a blow when the container is dropped onto a flat surface; or
(iv) By loading the cylinders in an upright position and securely bracing the cylinders in rail cars or motor vehicles, when loaded by the consignor and unloaded by the consignee.
(3) For cylinders manufactured on or after October 1, 2007, each cylinder valve assembly must be of sufficient strength or protected such that no leakage occurs when a cylinder with the valve installed is dropped 1.8 m (6 ft.) or more onto a non-yielding surface, such as concrete or steel, impacting the valve assembly or protection device at an orientation most likely to cause damage. The cylinder valve assembly protection may be provided by any method meeting the performance requirement in this paragraph (h)(3). Examples include:
(i) Equipping the cylinder with a securely attached metal cap.
(ii) Packaging the cylinder in a box, crate, or other strong outer packaging conforming to the requirements of §173.25.
(iii) Constructing the cylinder such that the valve is recessed into the cylinder or otherwise protected.
(i) Cylinders mounted in motor vehicles or in frames . (1) MEGCs must conform to the requirements in §173.312. DOT specification cylinders mounted on motor vehicles or in frames must conform to the requirements specified in this paragraph (i).
(2) Seamless DOT specification cylinders longer than 2 m (6.5 feet) are authorized for transportation only when horizontally mounted on a motor vehicle or in an ISO framework or other framework of equivalent structural integrity in accordance with CGA TB–25 (IBR, see §171.7 of this subchapter). The pressure relief device must be arranged to discharge unobstructed to the open air. In addition, for Division 2.1 (flammable gas) material, the pressure relief devices must be arranged to discharge upward to prevent any escaping gas from contacting personnel or any adjacent cylinders.

from here... http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?idno=49;region=DIV1;type=boolean;c=ecfr;cc=ecfr;sid=a4659416b15a4f19fcae1252dd448ed6;q1=compressed%20gas;rgn1=Section;op2=and;rgn2=Section;op3=and;rgn3=Section;rgn=div8;view=text;node=49%3A2.1.1.3.8.7.25.2

i believe co2 is a "devision 2.2".

 

[ianab]

who is going to have one of these launching sleds in their car?...

Yeah.. but you want to be sitting in a car with one that's taking off at random??? Your head is a lot softer than a brick wall. Want to send that Mythbusters cylinder down a crowded sidewalk and assume it will randomly miss everyone?

All I'm saying is that I personally know someone who WAS actually killed by an out of control CO2 tank, so it's not some urban legend that "could theoretically happen". BTW, she was an "innocent bystander" and maybe 100ft from the cylinder when it failed.

Ian