Mafia #77 Game thread- Back to the basics

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Kashta

Always Niko's fault.....
Jun 24, 2008
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I can really only see one reason why Rich was hit last night. He was no threat to the Scum team because Kash asked him to announce his invest. If JB was going to turn innocent why not let Rich live. We wouldn't have a known target in Zaffy, and much of the town today still wouldn't trust Rich, actually I bet more would have thought him scum for not being the hit.
I think JB was going to come up SCUM.....that they couldn't let happen.
Before I respond, consider this: The mafia had already determined for themselves that Rich was the real detective. They also they knew well in advance of nightfall that he was their next hit.

As a side note, I think it's worthwhile for us to answer that question too.... "how could they have been sure it was Rich instead of Pir who was the real PR?"

That's actually quite obvious, now.

The mafia knew Piranha was lying the whole time --> because Piranha named an innocent as scum.

Pir's claim was wrong (they knew that); Rich's claim was right (they knew that too). The mafia knows who their teammates are.

The mafia, therefore, wasted NO time whatsoever trying to decide between Pir and Rich as the real detective. They knew it immediately, as it was happening.

So throughout the whole second day, all 5 of the mafia team - including Zaffy - pretended to be confused and unsure which role claim was the real deal.

Now then, let's look again at your questions and other points made in the above post.

1. Rich was no threat to the scum. This is not true. The opposite is true, in fact. Rich was the biggest threat the scum team were up against because he was the (only) one who could investigate them. Rich is also a shrewd player, as shown by his first investigation pick... he had already nailed Zaffy as mafia.

Rich didn't tell everyone else about that investigation result right away, of course. He waited until after Pir interfered with the game with Pir's false role claim before coming out himself, but Rich knew already from night #1 what role Zaffy had.

2. If JB was going to turn innocent why not let Rich live? No use speculating on this at all, folks. We already have that answer.

(Hint: See Item 1.)

The mafia already knew Rich's first investigation was accurate. They could not afford the risk of allowing Rich to live long enough to investigate anyone else.

The mafia could see clearly that the town didn't know yet which RC to believe. But Rich was the real detective and no matter who he investigated next.... if Rich was still alive, he would report those results to us immediately.

The subject of his second invest (JB) was immaterial. Whether Rich found scum and confirmed that for us or whether Rich found an innocent and confirmed THAT for us.... this knowledge would help the town and hurt the mafia.

It was just a matter of time (and very little time at that) before the town found out Rich was telling the truth.

For the mafia's best interest, Rich had to die as soon as they could kill him.

3. We wouldn't have a known target in Zaffy/still wouldn't trust Rich. I disagree. I believed Rich before nightfall came and said so. Apparently, so did many others. That's why very few people voted to lynch Rich (take a look; only 2 votes there).

Add to that, after the death of either Haydn or Piranha and having their role revealed.. Rich's claim would have been further reinforced, if not all-but-confirmed in the minds of many townies who were still unsure. This is a process of elimination if nothing else.

Also, whoever the second investigation result revealed as innocent or evil... that person would also know Rich was accurate. If mafia... they would fall under intense scrutiny from everyone (along with Zaffy). If townie... they would side with Rich to help the town go after other mafia members. Zaffy, meanwhile, was already under enormous suspicion and that would only have increased.

4. More would have thought him scum had he not been the hit. Disagree with this too... in this case. Most of that was covered in Item 3.

With that said, I see you (and some others) are concerned about JB's role. Don't be.

Going back to the point I made above... the mafia knew with full certainty that Rich was telling the truth (Zaffy) and Piranha was lying (Haydn).

With that knowledge already... no one on the mafia team would have voted against Rich on Day #2. They all already knew he was going to die next because they intended to hit him. No question there.

Once Rich was revealed innocent and as detective, no one on the mafia team would want to be seen as trying to get Rich lynched. The mafia's best interest in that case would be to distance themselves from their own mafia hit. I believe the only votes cast against Rich were made by townies who (at the time) truly believed Rich was evil and lying to us.
 

TwoHobbies

AC Members
Jun 26, 2008
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forgot to adress your second point. We were going to figure out the truth on Zaffy anyways they could not have protected him.
Now I'm starting to believe your just trying to be difficult. We wouldn't know anything till Rich died. No mafia team is going to give up one of their own if they don't have to.
 

RazzleFish

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Oct 28, 2009
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Now I'm starting to believe your just trying to be difficult. We wouldn't know anything till Rich died. No mafia team is going to give up one of their own if they don't have to.
I beg to differ! It has happened many times and will happen many more times.
 

Kashta

Always Niko's fault.....
Jun 24, 2008
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I don't have a lot of time to post right now, but I'll be back later on.

Looking at the thread, I've seen it suggested that we ask Ice to shorten the days. My vote on that is absolutely not.

There are still 16 people alive in the game. Hell, we've had full games run with a lower number than that. Of course the thread will go slowly at times, that's normal. But with so many people in the game, it also picks right back up again whenever something new happens.

We should not reduce the time the town gets to sort through everything we need to discover one little bit at a time. This would be unfair to the town because it would adversely impact our ability to win this game.
 

maverickbr77

la-te-da
Jan 26, 2009
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Now I'm starting to believe your just trying to be difficult. We wouldn't know anything till Rich died. No mafia team is going to give up one of their own if they don't have to.
Im not trying to be difficult If you have more on JB please share I just don't see it. Im not clearing him just checking into your theory.

We may not have been 100% sure but no matter who got lynched (of the four prime candidates) last night Zaffy would have been a prime target.
Hayden (innocent) dies we go after Zaffy and Pir.
Pir (probably scum) dies we find out he was lieing we go after Zaffy.
Rich (det.) dies we go after Zaffy and Pir

and yes the scum team often trows out a sacrificial lamb.
 

Kashta

Always Niko's fault.....
Jun 24, 2008
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That's an estimate. 25% of the players are usually evil and this is a back to basics format.
 

Kashta

Always Niko's fault.....
Jun 24, 2008
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Sorry. The thread seems a bit slow today with just a few posting right now. I should have quoted the post before answering.

how are you so sure that there are 5 mafia?
That's an estimate. 25% of the players are usually evil and this is a back to basics format.
 

dirtydawg10

Severum Mafia Don
Sep 5, 2005
1,613
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Connecticut
I don't have a lot of time to post right now, but I'll be back later on.

Looking at the thread, I've seen it suggested that we ask Ice to shorten the days. My vote on that is absolutely not.

There are still 16 people alive in the game. Hell, we've had full games run with a lower number than that. Of course the thread will go slowly at times, that's normal. But with so many people in the game, it also picks right back up again whenever something new happens.

We should not reduce the time the town gets to sort through everything we need to discover one little bit at a time. This would be unfair to the town because it would adversely impact our ability to win this game.
I agree...I was mentioning that based solely on lynching Zaff since it is a foregone conclusion who the Town wants out next. Then we could go back to 48. I don't see a problem with waiting though if we have to.
 

jm1212

Pterophyllum scalare
Jul 22, 2006
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He attacked Zaffy.

Ok, trust me UN, when I'm viewing this thread, I'm not gonna be 'quieting down'.
so he attacked Zaffy. many people have gone after Salt, does that make them the detectives too? i attacked JB, does that make me a detective too? no, because even though both have looked very mafia-ish at times, we still dont really know their role. the only way you would know that rich was the real detective because he suddenly attacked zaffy would be if you knew that zaffy was scum as well, and there is only one other way that is possible. don't try to claim Vigilante either; this would not be possible in any way as Rich could only communicate with you if he investigated you. Pir, you are now promoted to 100% scum.
I don't have a lot of time to post right now, but I'll be back later on.

Looking at the thread, I've seen it suggested that we ask Ice to shorten the days. My vote on that is absolutely not.

There are still 16 people alive in the game. Hell, we've had full games run with a lower number than that. Of course the thread will go slowly at times, that's normal. But with so many people in the game, it also picks right back up again whenever something new happens.

We should not reduce the time the town gets to sort through everything we need to discover one little bit at a time. This would be unfair to the town because it would adversely impact our ability to win this game.
I agree as well. it might seem slow because we know who we are going after the next two nights, but after that, there are only a few suspects here and there. most of us have been focused on pir and zaffy and haven't looked into other people that could very well be scum.
 
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