My beta's fins are tangled..?

[LeahK]

I have read though, that they only require a big tank (50g+) if you school them.

So what would be the average tank size for just 1 bala?

Well, the problem is, it's not really a question of "if" you school them. Most schooling fish, by nature, need to be kept in schools. Doing otherwise can lead to aggression or stress issues.

Keep in mind, the reason fish school is for protection--safety in numbers. So, if you take a fish who by instinct seeks the company of his own kind, and keep him isolated, then you can imagine how this would cause him to be stressed and confused.
If you look online, most sites that tell you it's ok to keep a schooling fish as a single species are also trying to sell you fish

From a site dedicated to balas: "Please try to always keep bala sharks in groups of 5 or more. They are schooling fish and they get very lonely and possibly aggressive if you have them singly in your aquarium. In nature, they are found in schools of hundreds or thousands of bala sharks (a few more than would probably fit into your aquarium)." -- http://www.balashark.info/bala_shark_care.php

And, as for tank size: "Some stores will insist that you have at least 50 gallon tank before they sell you a bala shark. For the full grown silver sharks a 125 gallon tank is the minimum you should have." -- http://www.balashark.info/

I've seen full grown balas. They live with some koi in a pond at a mall near my house. They are certainly over a foot long, and quite fat.
A 55 gallon tank is 4 feet long. Can you imagine putting a foot long fish in a tank where he can't travel more than four times his body length?
And, a 55 gallon tank is only a foot wide, so he'd barely be able to turn around.
So, despite what minimum recommendations you find on the web, just in my opinion, balas eventually need to be kept in huge tanks or in ponds.

Anyway, here's some more info on balas as schoolers:

"Not to mention, they are a schooling fish so you’re better off to keep them in groups of 5 or more....The Bala Sharks are docile fish for the most part. There are some cases where they may cause trouble. If you keep them singly or in an aquarium that is too small for them they may become aggressive towards other fishes and take bites out of them."
-- http://www.balashark.info/

And here's just one person's experience at another site:

"Bala sharks need a huge tank!!! At least 100 or 150 gallon. I had 3 for a few years.....in a 66 gallon community tank with barbs. They are a schooling fish and are very fast when they start playing. They also like to jump. This was a really sad mistake on my part.....I didn't do reseach before I bought them and was told they only got to about 6 inches. Well that was wrong!!!! As my fish grew....they would jump....and one hit the lid so hard one day that it did a lot of damage to itself. Another flew out of the tank one evening and as luck would have it....both my Dh and I were in the room....this poor fish landed on the floor beside my dog.....both Dh and I moved fast enough......I grabbed the dog and Dh put the fish back in the tank. Now both of these fish healed but it was not a pleasant experience for either us or the fish.
At 13 inches long....we had to find homes for these beauties.....it was a sad day.....but we knew that they would be much happier in the 150 aquarium that was going to be their new home. They looked much happier being able to swim around a little more. These fish were never aggressive.....just big. Lesson learned here.....don't buy fish unless you have done your research on them....after you buy the fish.....its to late."
-- http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/aquarium/msg0900592419971.html

 

[slugzkea]

Thanks for providing the information at such odd hours of today. Coincidentally, i researched the same thing on my break at work.

There are a couple of things that I have noticed though...there apparently are 2 types of bala sharks, and i've noticed that mine looks different from the standard one that everyone's claiming that grows 14 inches and what not.

Here is a picture of my bala:

He is skinny/slim body type, and small...no doubt he will grow.

Here's another forum with bala's that looks like mine, and they claim a 32 gallon for one is sufficient: HERE.

HERE is a picture of a fatter bala shark.

Now from what i've researched, bala's come in 2 sizes..the bigger ones, and the smaller ones. I'm sure mine is the smaller type..no doubt it'll grow, but I doubt it'll get as big as people say it will..considering I only paid 5 bux for him.

I've also read, that some one had a bala like mine, and he upgraded his tank to a 55g and his bala didn't grow at all. That being said proves there are different types of bala's.

Either way, I have acknowledged the risks: bala's are known to eat guppies and people are telling me that they will attack bettas. right now my one Bala shark "jaws" has shown no signs of aggression or miscomfort. he isn't aggressive, he loves to hang around the left side of the tank. He eats with the other fishies and when I lift the canopy to do fish business, he doesn't attempt to jump out.

I've seen a bala jump before, and wow. The first bala I was going to get was being crammed into a bag with a huge plant and 2 other fish...and it got uncomfortable so the thing shot right out of the bag before the pet store owner could close it, and it landed hard on the floor. I obviously requested a different bala, and in a seperate bag.

So i'll know if my bala starts acting weird, so far, so good, and in less than a week i'm either getting a 29g, 36g or maybe 40-60g.

My single bala jaws, is doing fine as the only bala in the tank, but is schooled/commuted with the 3 female bettas and every other life form in the tank.

 

[lizzyrd]

Pet and fish stores price fish by how common they are (how easy they are to breed and how many breeders there are) not by how big they get. For example, feeder goldfish cost 10 cents to 50 cents yet they grow so large that they will need atleast a 30 gallon by itself when full grown...I would guess some people would say larger. Also, baby fish are much more common than full grown fish since they do require more space and better care to make it to adulthood and thrive to its full life span. So that is another reason why smaller fish are less expensive in the store.

In short, the price of a fish does not indicate the size aquarium nor social requirements of a fish.

Your bala looks emaciated in the picture.

 

[LeahK]

Thanks for providing the information at such odd hours of today.

I'm in Honolulu It was only 11 pm for me.

There are a couple of things that I have noticed though...there apparently are 2 types of bala sharks, and i've noticed that mine looks different from the standard one that everyone's claiming that grows 14 inches and what not....
Now from what i've researched, bala's come in 2 sizes..the bigger ones, and the smaller ones. I'm sure mine is the smaller type..no doubt it'll grow, but I doubt it'll get as big as people say it will..considering I only paid 5 bux for him.

The differences between the balas in the pictures you show are just differences of age. Your bala is a baby. Thus it is slimmer and narrower. The fatter and larger balas are older.

There are only two members of the genus containing bala sharks: B. ambusticauda and B. melanopterus. B. ambusticauda has some red in its tail and is very likely extinct ( http://www.petfrd.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22167 , http://www.mendeley.com/research/ba...fish-from-indochina-cypriniformes-cyprinidae/ )

B. melanopterus is the only bala in the fish trade. The person in the thread you linked to said that Petsmart had two sizes of balas--these were just older and younger versions B. melanopterus. Stores often do this with other big fish like clown loaches, so they can sell the bigger ones for more money.

I once bought some clown loaches at a pet store for 4.50 each. They were about 2 inches long. I got home, got online, and realized that clown loaches get over a foot long and live for up to thirty years. It was sad, but I had to rehome them.

Fish breed like crazy. They're a dime a dozen. The fact that you paid 5 bucks for a bala shark doesn't say anything about how big they'll get. I can go to the grocery store and pay 5 bucks for some whole trout (dead of course ).

One of the most ridiculous moves in the fish trade was to start selling red-bellied pacus. You can get them online for around 6 bucks ( http://www.petsolutions.com/Red-Belly-Pacu+I67200+C79.aspx , http://www.****************/catalog_pages/wild/wild_imported_fish.htm#pacu )
Yet, these fish get almost 3 feet long. They have no business being sold as pets, IMHO.

I've also read, that some one had a bala like mine, and he upgraded his tank to a 55g and his bala didn't grow at all. That being said proves there are different types of bala's.

This probably proves that the bala was stunted. After living in a small tank for too long, fish's growth rates are affected. Sometimes, when you finally put them in an a bigger tank, they start growing again. Sometimes, they don't. Either way, their internal organs are affected by the stunting, and their life spans are shortened.

I agree 100% with what wikipedia says about housing balas: "Very young Bala sharks are sometimes kept in small aquaria. However, given their adult size, schooling behavior, and swimming speed, the fish quickly grow to need much more room. Hobbyists continue to debate over acceptable minimum tank sizes, but generally recommend at least a 6 foot tank. FishBase lists a minimum of 150 cm (5 ft).[2] Many believe the fish is simply too large and too active to be kept in commercial aquaria at all; only enormous, custom-built tanks are acceptable, if any tank at all is. Indoor ponds are also considered feasible housing options and may be better suited to the average aquarist." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bala_shark

My single bala jaws, is doing fine as the only bala in the tank, but is schooled/commuted with the 3 female bettas and every other life form in the tank.

Unfortunately, schooling fish will only school with members of their own species. Have you ever seen fish move as if they are a single group? Like herring in the open sea or something. That's schooling. The fish communicate with each other through complex physical cues.
A non-schooling fish like a betta is not programmed by instinct to understand or respond to such physical cues. Thus the bala may try to school with the bettas, but the bettas are not going to school back. And, for the bala, this sort of miscommunication and inability to express his instinctual behaviors is what leads to the stress and confusion I mentioned earlier.

I don't mean to throw all this info at you, when you're clearly committed to keeping the bala. And you can certainly find places on the web where one person has a single bala in a 10 gallon tank and says it's doing great, or where someone (even an informational website) says 50 gallons is the minimum for a school.

Just knowing the ones I've seen in the koi pond, and knowing that 14 inches is what's commonly cited as their maximum length, I wouldn't keep them myself. They're not only big, but they're fast and powerful swimmers. I think it's cruel to keep a fish like this in a small tank. Don't get me wrong--I'm not saying that you are cruel, but that the pet trade is cruel for marketing them as pets for small tanks. Just like red-bellied pacus and clown loaches, I think, if balas are sold at all, they should be marketed as specialty fish for people with massive aquariums (as in, hundreds of gallons). But, the sad truth is that pet stores can make a lot of money selling these fish cheaply to anyone who wants one, because they look cool.

You're definitely doing the right thing by researching fish and looking into getting a bigger tank. In the end, you have to judge the information you find on the web for yourself.

Anyways, it's now 8:30 am in Honolulu and I need to get off the web and go get some work done
:coffee2:

 

[slugzkea]

Thanks for the information, very helpful. I'l keep looking out for signs of stress but the bala does seem pretty content at the moment with the mix that I have.

I'm going to get either a 40 or a 49g tank in a few days. Once he surpasses that, i'll give him away, that's if he even gets to the maximum size/average size of a standard bala...who knows they are all different. I really don't have the space for anything bigger than 60g tank.

The schooling thing does seem crucial...but if he's acting normal as a single bala, is there really a concern? he eats, he swims, he interacts with the bettas, the mollies, everything..only thing is, he does need a bigger tank.

having the lid off a lot of the times to perform maintenance is a true test for fish stress.

Any fish that doesn't like their environment will attempt to jump out, and this has not happened...yet.

 

[halfmoonplakat]

2 female bettas in the same tank will create a lot of aggression problems...you need at least 3 or even better, 4, to establish a proper pecking order.
Also gouramis are incompatible with betta fish
The green poop might be the product of consumption of vegetable matter. Remember, however, that bettas are carnivores

 

[slugzkea]

Sorry I forgot to mention the other betta. There are three females, i have a video coming soon and will share with you all.

The hierarchy has been established within 48 hours. All is great. Princess is the alpha of the female community. After 48 hours only minimal nipping and chasing was noticed but now, only princess flares to present her dominance. They do not chase or nip anymore, and even when they were nipping, no damage was done.

Mr blue is doing great. I am aware they are carnivores and I do feed him premium betta pellets plus blood worms once a week. I also have an updated video of him very soon.

I also forgot to mention, that the 3 bettas are all different colour and sizes, and it worked out fine. Katana (the baby, 9 week old) and Sapphire swim together and play sometimes.

I have either a 39 or a 45 gallon tank coming this wednesday and will move the entire community into that tank plus a few more female bettas to expand the female betta clan.

I also might move mr blue back to the 15g tank and just keep the 10g tank for a hospital tank..or get another betta! i love bettas....

 

[slugzkea]

15.6g video HERE.
9.5g video HERE.