Neons have something weird going on around tail

[BioHazard]

I'll have to ask Dr. Kipe-Nolt about a smear. I took a microbiology course, and did smears there. The problem I see arising is that I wouldn't know how to differentiate between normal fishy flora and a pathogenic bacteria. The one thing that could do, though, is possibly tell us if we are dealing with bacteria, parasite or fungus. If it's a parasite, I should see little worms and eggs. Fungus would show spore structures of some kind, and bacteria would show none of the above. I'll have to see if I can get in today and nab a slide and coverslip. I'll just do a wet mount sample, which should at least differentiate between the three culprits.
If I can, I'll ask if I can set up the video projector microscope. Then I can bring in my camera, and get a couple shots!
Another question then - Best way to get a sample? I think we have sterile 'q-tips' in the lab. Would that be my best bet? I just don't want to do even more damage trying to get a sample. The other option might be a skin scraping with a wooden tongue depressor. The plus with that would be a larger sample, but the potential to do more damage. It's also gonna be interesting to try to hold onto a neon whilst sampling it....darn tiny fish.

 

[msjinkzd]

Its a shame you didn't scrape the dead ram before freezing/discarding, that would have been the easiest way. I would do a gill swab if possible and a swab of the caudal peduncle if possible. Good luck!

 

[BioHazard]

Sounds like a plan. I got a boatload of slides, coverslips and sterile swabs from Dr. Henry.
I'm also looking into buying a digital scope for myself now, lol. What a nerd.

 

[Cerianthus]

Sounds like a plan. I got a boatload of slides, coverslips and sterile swabs from Dr. Henry.
I'm also looking into buying a digital scope for myself now, lol. What a nerd.

Bio major student, you should know that units used in bacteria is in Micron which is one millionth of meter. You may need very powerful one to just to see them, let alone id. YOu may be able to utilize one in school if you know Bio Lab TA well. That is MAYBE???
You can at least do gram staining to determine gram postive/negative.

Nicely aquascaped tank!!!

How are neons doing? Any improvements or is it getting worse?

What is pH of your tank water? How long you had your neons? How many to begin with and how many left in what time span?

I would not add any anti parasitic meds into planted tank. Should be applied in Q/T regardless of what bottles claims.

 

[BioHazard]

Okay.
I did 4 slides.
Slide 1 was of the small neon, and was a scraping of the caudal peduncle.
Slide 2 was also the small neon, and was a swabbing of the caudal peduncle.
Slide 3 was of the large neon, and was a swabbing of the caudal peduncle.
Slide 4 was of the blue ram, and was a swabbing of the posterior of the operculum, and maybe a bit of gill.

Hopefully I didn't hurt anyone. Both the neons bled, which I expected with the scraping, but was a surprise with the swabbing. They also lost some scales, probably due to the disease. I doused them in StressCoat after the sample was taken, to help them heal.

Now for the results.

No obvious parasites or fungi. Slide 1 did shop two unknown objects which may have been eggs or cysts. They were perfectly spherical, with a light outer ring and a dark center. They were approximately 1/2 the size of a fish scale. It also showed a large amount of grayish specks too small to focus on, which were either bacteria or detritus. The other slides showed nothing of interest, or smaller amounts of gray specks.

So, what do we have? My guess is a possible bacterial infection with possible secondary infection by protozoans or parasites. Source was the blue ram, who was not quarantined, and carried in bacteria to which the neons had no immune resistance.

What should I do for treatment?
I'm thinking, move the ram and affected neons into my 5 gal quarantine hex, treat with salt, prazipro and some kind of antibiotic.

Any additional expertise would be greatly appreciated.

 

[BioHazard]

UPDATE!
Okay, now I got up this morning, and the smaller neon is missing most if not all off his caudal fin!!!! WHat now??!?!?!?
He is still swimming, but slowly and awkwardly. I feel terrible.

 

[BioHazard]

Okay, I just did an 80% WC. Got to go to class soon, so I'll stop by Petco on my way back. Hopefully they have something that will work.

 

[BioHazard]

Back from class.
Unfortunately, the female ram died while I was gone. I'm very upset about it, She was such a character...
Stopped at Petco, and picked up some supplies.
I got a 5.5 gallon tank to QT in, a heater, and Prime. I also got Mardel Maracyn-oxy, which claims to treat bacterial, fungal and viral infections, and Tetra Lifeguard All-In-One Treatment tablets, which says it treats bacterial, fungal, viral and parasitic infections.
I'm hoping to set up the QT tank tomorrow. I have a sponge filter I'll put in, along with a bubble stone.
I'll put in the 2 neons showing symptoms.

 

[msjinkzd]

i would honestly treat all the fish, good luck!

 

[BioHazard]

Are these invert safe? The package does not say one way or the other.