Neons have something weird going on around tail

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BioHazard

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Mar 15, 2009
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Does or did Neon's tail/fin became brittle somewhat like when you bend plastic back strip?
Peeling of skin from tail progressing towards upper body?
Don't know on the tail fin, but no peeling.

The body above the spine has lost color though. The one has lost his caudal fin, the other has a chunk missing from his tail. The one missing his tail had begun separating himself from the group, and is moving funny, although that may be due to the missing fin.
 

BioHazard

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Mar 15, 2009
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UPDATE - No change in fish. They are still in the 5.5 gal, being treated. I took some photos, in case it will help with diagnosis. Still treating with LifeGuard. Also using lots of Prime.

Photos. Notice the color loss along the back, and the one missing his caudal.



 

Kivstev

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Mar 19, 2009
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The paleness along the back sure looks like NTD or fNTD with a secondary bacterial infection at the caudal fin. Very common for a fish to develop fin rot with NTD. I hope I'm wrong. In any case a good wide spectrum antibiotic wouldn't hurt at this point. If it is false NTD then it is apparently treatable since it is bacterial in nature.

BTW: I would at the very least do very large water changes in your main tank every day or two. This will help cut down on any bacteria that may be in there.

Here are some ideas:

http://www.aquarium-pond-answers.com/2007/02/neon-tetra-disease.html
 
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secuono

AC Members
Aug 12, 2009
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I wonder if you take the fish out of the water, do the white areas vanish? My male Molly had the same thing only on his tail fin, but once he was out of water, his tail was clear!
 

Cerianthus

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Jul 9, 2008
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By doing unnecessary water changes, it will not cut down amt of bacteria. Population would just jump right back according to the conditions. If anything, it may cause more burden on other healthy fish.
Bacteria are in the tank all the time. No different from virus/bactria which are around us.. Healthier the person, less likely to suffer the consequnces. Weaker the person, more likely to suffer the consequences.

Actually neons seems better than what I suspected/expected compared to first batch of fish.

Very difficult task to speculate/determine what it may be via pics thus one should be more careful before posting what he/she thinks.

NTD in tetra are very commonly followed with behavioral changes and color changes.
One which are suspected of contracted NTD should isolate itself/themselves herdling away away from the rest towards top, hanging, standing in angle facing up along with color changes (paleness on dorsal area). And When they drop, they really drop fast.
I doubt it is NTS besides it seems fish are getting better, at least in my view.
Cant not judge for sure if there is development of paleness on dorsal area , maybe due to flashlight?
White edges on one neon with lost tail, keep an eye on it. If med you used does not take care of it, should look into antibiotic. Again give one med a real chance (time) to work.
If it gets any worse after the instructed dosage/treatment, then would pursue different/alternative med.

Before/during usage of antibiotic or other med, test the water of Q/T, regularly.
Again no major/drastic changes because test revealed some funky result. Small but more frequent changes will reduce any possible toxic waste products without further burden on fish. Reason it out somewhat before taking actions.

The link which Rachel provided is very good site in simple terms/langauges..
Use it as guidance as it is not always that simple. Pharmacokinetic goes lot deeper than how it may have presented in this link.

I just glanced thru few topics and for now, members should read topic on use of salt in f/w and disadvantages of mixing different kind/types of antibiotics.

Of course, other topics as well.

Rachel, thanx for posting that link. I dont have to go up to my attic to look for my text books (dont even know if I still have them), not that I really need them but nice to refresh memory and upgrade (new facts are found constantly) my memory bank thru this and other similar site.
Please keep posting such site for others to share as I know that there is no end to learning.

BMS, keep posting the prognosis/status of the treatment & hope all goes well.
 

BioHazard

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Mar 15, 2009
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By doing unnecessary water changes, it will not cut down amt of bacteria. Population would just jump right back according to the conditions. If anything, it may cause more burden on other healthy fish.
Bacteria are in the tank all the time. No different from virus/bactria which are around us.. Healthier the person, less likely to suffer the consequnces. Weaker the person, more likely to suffer the consequences.

Actually neons seems better than what I suspected/expected compared to first batch of fish.
Really? They look worse to me.

Very difficult task to speculate/determine what it may be via pics thus one should be more careful before posting what he/she thinks.
Of course, but ideas help.

NTD in tetra are very commonly followed with behavioral changes and color changes.
One which are suspected of contracted NTD should isolate itself/themselves herdling away away from the rest towards top, hanging, standing in angle facing up along with color changes (paleness on dorsal area). I doubt it is NTS besides it seems fish are getting better.
The one without his caudal was isolating himself in the larger tank, at the opposite end of the rest of the school.
Cant not judge for sure if there is development of paleness on dorsal area , maybe due to flashlight?
No, I can see it even without the camera. They are definitely pale dorsally. Almost clearish.
White edges on one neon with lost tail, keep an eye on it. If med you used does not take care of it, should look into antibiotic. Again give one med a real chance (time) to work.
If it gets any worse after the instructed dosage/treatment, then would pursue different/alternative med.

Before using antibiotic or other med, test the water of Q/T, regularly.
Again no major/drastic changes because test revealed some funky result. Small but more frequent changes will reduce any possible toxic waste products without further burdern on fish. Reason it out somewhat before taking actions.

The link which Rachel provided is very good site in simple terms/langauges..
Use it as guidance as it is not always that simple. Pharmacokinetic goes lot deeper than how it may have presented in this link.

I just glanced thru few topics and for now, members should read topic on use of salt in f/w and disadvantages of mixing different kind/types of antibiotics.

Of couorse other topics as well.

Rachel, thanx for posting that link. I dont have to go up to my attic to look for my text books (dont even know if I still have them), not that I really need them but nice to refresh memory and upgrade (new facts are found constantly) my memory bank thru this and other similar site.
Please keep posting such site for others to share as I know that there is no end to learning.

BMS, keep posting the prognosis/status of the treatment & hope all goes well.
Sure will!
.
 

Kivstev

AC Members
Mar 19, 2009
152
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0
False NTD has virtually the same symptoms as NDT. The only way to differentiate is to bring the fish to a lab or feed it antibiotics. If it improves, it wasn't NTD. :D

By doing unnecessary water changes, it will not cut down amt of bacteria. Population would just jump right back according to the conditions. If anything, it may cause more burden on other healthy fish.
Bacteria are in the tank all the time. No different from virus/bactria which are around us.. Healthier the person, less likely to suffer the consequnces. Weaker the person, more likely to suffer the consequences. Water changes in a diseased aquarium are now a bad thing? If I am healthy and am in a room filled with H1N1 on all surfaces, will I have a better chance to remain healthy if someone were to disinfect those surfaces? I think I would be.

Always do a large water change to cut down the bacteria population after separating sick fish from healthy - whether treating with medications or not. I really don't see how one could debate this. If it is NTD, large water changes would also cut down on the number of spores so that the healthy fish has a better shot of defending itself against
that parasite.

Actually neons seems better than what I suspected/expected compared to first batch of fish.

Very difficult task to speculate/determine what it may be via pics thus one should be more careful before posting what he/she thinks.

The purpose of most 'illness' forums is to give an opinion and to help educate/inform ones who have problems. I never said it was the NTD. I said all indications from that picture and descriptions point to it. I also posted a link with excellent information on it to help identify and treat that particular ailment so the OP could get an idea of whether that may be the problem. Obviously he/she can observe the fish much better than any of us. No harm in speculating when the pictures match what the person posting the pictures sees with his/her own eyes.

Short of bringing the fish to a laboratory, how else are we supposed to diagnose illness?


NTD in tetra are very commonly followed with behavioral changes and color changes.
One which are suspected of contracted NTD should isolate itself/themselves herdling away away from the rest towards top, hanging, standing in angle facing up along with color changes (paleness on dorsal area). And When they drop, they really drop fast.
I doubt it is NTS besides it seems fish are getting better, at least in my view.
Cant not judge for sure if there is development of paleness on dorsal area , maybe due to flashlight?
White edges on one neon with lost tail, keep an eye on it. If med you used does not take care of it, should look into antibiotic. Again give one med a real chance (time) to work.
If it gets any worse after the instructed dosage/treatment, then would pursue different/alternative med.

Obviously the tail rot is a sign of infection. It is commonplace for fish to have this with NTD or fNTD. So, why not treat the fish with a good antibiotic for the tail rot and HOPE that it takes care of the other symptoms should it be fNTD or another bacterial infection. There are obviously other problems besides the tail rot. Best to be aggressive and proactive in this circumstance IMO before any infection becomes systemic.

Before/during usage of antibiotic or other med, test the water of Q/T, regularly.
Again no major/drastic changes because test revealed some funky result. Small but more frequent changes will reduce any possible toxic waste products without further burden on fish. Reason it out somewhat before taking actions.

The link which Rachel provided is very good site in simple terms/langauges..
Use it as guidance as it is not always that simple. Pharmacokinetic goes lot deeper than how it may have presented in this link.

I just glanced thru few topics and for now, members should read topic on use of salt in f/w and disadvantages of mixing different kind/types of antibiotics.

Of course, other topics as well.

Rachel, thanx for posting that link. I dont have to go up to my attic to look for my text books (dont even know if I still have them), not that I really need them but nice to refresh memory and upgrade (new facts are found constantly) my memory bank thru this and other similar site.
Please keep posting such site for others to share as I know that there is no end to learning.

BMS, keep posting the prognosis/status of the treatment & hope all goes well.
 
Last edited:

BioHazard

Here and There
Mar 15, 2009
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So far, fish seem to be fine. Everyone is still alive and eating. I haven't noticed much change one way or another. I will finish off the 5 day treatment they are on now, and if this doesn't work, I will try something more aggressive.
 

mel_20_20

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Sep 1, 2008
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Deep in the heart of texas
Keep us posted. We're all pulling for you and your pretty little neons.
 
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