Mafia #51 - Mafia Citizens - The Play

[plantling]

Is it just me or does Z seem a bit tame this round? I remember him being a little more aggressive with his comments on ppl who he thinks is scum. In the post below he comments on Kashta's wording in one of her posts but reserves judgement b/c of the train that has fallen on her:

Originally Posted by Kashta
It'll be interesting to see which direction you pick once your rebel buddies get a chance to coach you along a little better.

These kind of statements always draw my attention. However, with the train that has fallen on you I am going to hold judgement for the time being.

Then he makes a comment about the train on Kashta and his vote on CJ.

I'd say now it's a train I'm not saying I don't agree with what some of you are saying, in fact, I do. But a runaway vote on Day 1 has historically ended in tears if my memory serves me, afraid I have no hard facts on that though.

My vote isn't going to stay on CJ, I'm just hoping to get them in thread before nightfall, of course if they aren't reading it won't make a difference... Oh wait, I see ya looking CJ

Here he cautions voting on Kash b/c if she were Rebel it would make her talk less? But yet he defends his single vote on CJ.

No I only have the desire to not see one person raised above all others so soon. The person in the lead gains the biggest discussion, thus more candidates, more talk. Even if Kash is a Rebel, voting her up so far above all others is going to squash her interactions and thus we learn little from her demise.



Didn't know this but still not a valid reason not to vote for them. I just need to hear something, I've never played with CJ and know nothing about them. I know when people put my name down I get talkative (ok more talkative) regardless of role.

Right, I remember most of the games I played although they are a bit muddled, and I know that Day 1 the Baddies/Goodies, whatever we are trying to Kill are usually trying to not draw attention to themselves. Kash coming right out the gate is a big oopsie to be certain and they're kind of defensive, but what does it mean?

On the vote count my list is a bit in shambles from the wording issues, I think Red is still on Kash because Bala didn't accept the unvote to switch to Coler. Your mileage may vary

When he switches to Maverick, there is no case. Just a can't shake how off his posts are.

Actually I can't shake how maverick's post seems off in several ways, and since I seem to have scared CJ away there's no point in wasting a vote there.

I retract my vote on CJ and vote to lynch Maverick

It's just not the ZSand I knew of old. And IF Kashta is lynched and found to be mucs, I think ZSand should be really looked at.

That's all I have time for tonite. I've been looking at Coler also but not really done yet. To be fair, though I've butted heads w/him, his posts seem helpful. But like I said I'm not done yet.

 

[Madcrawdad]

Ok, I am yet to see a good explanation of why plant tried to change last minute. A lot of excuses and a lot of fumbling going on...almost like they are back peddling. Only a person of scum and high power in my opinion would not back their decision, a laying low move IMO. Trying to not say too much and place blame on Kash as everyone seems to be doing. Red is still on my suspect list but plant seems to be hiding a whole lot and now laying low...typical of scum

I think I posted wrong in my last post so I wan to get it correct....

I retract my vote on TRS and I VOTE TO LYNCH PLANT

Paul, any reason that you'd quote Luvbugs who was quoting me in your post where you vote for Plantling?

So in other words... anyone who believes me HAS TO BE on the mucs side and anyone you can convince to believe your accusations against me HAS TO BE pro-town. ....Just because you say so.

That is freaking ridiculous. :rofl:

Absolutely not...but just becuase there may be non-believers doesn't make a case any weaker.

Please explain this statement, Mad. I don't see any basis for this at all. There is nothing that indicates one way or another whether I got a PM or that even expected to get one after JL created this game thread.

"..although there might be a higher likelihood of it based on when you posted..."

There might be...? A likelihood...? Gee, Mad.. could you make that any more vague?

All based on timing of your first post... I can't confirm that you received a PM, and that's not even a main reason for my case against you. A good reason to watch you more closely at the beginning, though and see how you act/react. And when TRS threw out his initial random vote, you reacted badly. For someone who perceived something to be a joke, you sure pulled out the guns and started screaming 'Scum!'

I laughed and I was annoyed. Then you and half a dozen other people (or so) nit-picked everything apart and blew it all out of proportion during the most random stage of Day 1 speculation.

Why were you annoyed? Seriously. The guy threw what you claimed was a joke vote, and you then laughed. You claimed have thought it was funny, but were also annoyed? Scum would be more likely to be emotional over a supposed joke vote, as a townie really should have nothing to worry about. Right?

Yes Madcrawdad.. that is exactly what you and I did to him in the last game. Red was all by himself as a beginner who was innocent with nobody he was allowed to discuss that game with. We noticed how when he got confused or someone provoked him how easily he got angry, defensive, hostile, and erratic. And we grilled him for that every chance we got. Our whole team used that against him and all the innocents in that game simply because we could -- and simply because we needed him to change the vote he flubbed up by retracting it improperly. I took all the advantage I could of that fact in that game the same way anyone else would. What else was supposed to do... hold his hand? Was I supposed to give him a break or cut him some slack because he made an easy target of himself then? That's not part of this game and you know it.

Bottom line is the town was incorrectly breathing down TRS's neck last game, based on his game play. You know firsthand that the mafia was able to exploit that and make it worse and confuse the town. So it would make sense, that if you were truly interested in finding scum (and not creating a diversion), you might just watch TRS a little bit more before jumping up and down and yelling 'Scum. Right here!'

Despite what happened to him then and this sudden high-minded attitude of yours you're trying to invent now about going easy on inexperienced players... you are doing the same thing to me in this game that we did to him in that one.

Sorry. No confused newbie defense allowed for you. You took to the game like a fish to water.

Red opened this game with a controversial post to lynch me. I sensed his little jab behind doing this on a lark, I suppose, because it was his silly way of getting back at me for giving him so much the grief last time. That's why it was funny. He admitted it wasn't serious, that he was having some fun with me... then it spiraled downhill from there. I wanted to find out how he would react this time after he showed us in the last game how well he began to catch on. Later in the game, he stopped being so defensive and actually started to post message that had actual substance to them. That's part of the learning curve that exists here.

Wrong. TRS still was still having a rough time at the end of last game, and you know it. We had him voting for JohnLarson, AFTER JL was confirmed innocent...

In this game, I decided to test him on this and I threw a few rock at him over that lynch post he started. As I've said before, I took a little jab at him and threw out comments that made him seem suspicious. To Red's credit, he has learned a lot since that last game started and he didn't take that bait this time. But what I've done is no more scummy/mucsy than what all the rest of the people are doing here too.

You tested him by throwing out comments that made him seem suspicious? So you deliberately tried to make the guy appear scummy in the town's eyes. That's not how good townies play the game... Instead, you watch for scummy behavior and then point it out. You don't deliberately try to make someone look scummy just to see how they'll react....unless you're scum.

Agreed.. EVERYTHING in this game is completely different.

Again, no confused newbie card for you.:headshake2:

Funny how you're trying to play the newbie card with me, but then feel comfortable giving LuvBugs lessons in 'common' strategy tactics used in the game..

Responses to those lines highlight in color...

Green/Teal --> That's the same thing I just pointed out in the post I just finished.

Blue Text --> I can answer that question because it's a common strategy tactic a team may have to consider when someone on their team is clearly going to get lynched. This is something we talked about as a possibility on the mafia team if it was needed at some point. If a scummy team player is obviously going down and it would place the doomed person's teammates at risk of exposure... of being identified, then that player becomes what's known as a sacrificial lamb. That's an example where a scum player accepts the fact that the only course of action is to let themselves hang... so they sacrifice themselves for the benefit of the team.

In my case at nightfall last night, I was on my own and I was in a position where I had to make that call myself. Since I'm innocent, for me to choose to take that fall would have protected nobody at all. The town loses an innocent which hurts their chances in the final outcome because the rebels (scum/whatever) gain a one-person advantage that could make a huge difference later on. When I voted to save myself and see Zigman get lynched instead of me, I was counting on the chance that he would turn out scummy. He turned out to be innocent after all.. so that switch between us didn't accomplish anything. Just a whole lot more drama than we really need or want. Yes, it saved my neck at the time.. but it ended Zigman's game abruptly.

 

[Madcrawdad]

Madcrawdad is the one who has been using this (impossible but yet... "higly likely") theory against me that (1) I'm in a power role (i.e., rebel team), that (2) I got this PM (which was never sent to me) before posting prematurely in this thread, and (3) all the rest of his theorizing about how long he imagines I would sit here dinking around with intro posts after just finding out I had a power role simply because I mentioned (somewhere) that if I had gotten a PM like that, I'd certainly go make contact with my new teammates instead.

This whole train wreck Mad has shoved me into isn't your doing, pappy. And that's not what I was saying. And yes... It was IceH20 who followed your idea who made that correlation directly when he decided to vote for me.

Here's a question for you, Kashta. If you did NOT get a PM, why would you post in the thread BEFORE JL had even mentioned that citizens would not get PMs? Seriously. Earlier you claimed that if you were scum you wouldn't have posted in the game before checking in with your team, but you'd be willing to post in the thread without having received your PM? Sure. Makes sense....NOT.

 

[Madcrawdad]

In the post about people voting for Kash I was simply stating why a train on Kash could be telling for the town instead of bad as others were trying to point out.

Your point about me voting for Ice because he voted for Kash is invalid. I voted for Ice when he was voting for Maverick. Check your facts before posting BS.

Never said that you voted Ice because he voted for Kashta... but if you claimed to have liked Ice for scum, you likely didn't like Kashta, right? Doesn't make sense that you would, if your #1 suspect was standing on her helping push for her lynch...

 

[Coler]

'Morning all *yawn* I'm going to have a crazy day in work today folks so am not going to be able to post as much.

(btw someone said something (bkw I think) about me sticking a vote on Zigman for no reason which gave Kashta an available out - I did not stick a vote on Zig for no reason, see my posts for details. Yes my voting Zigman certainly was part of why he got lynched - eh dud lol. I accept responsibility for my mistakes.

I've read it, re-read it and Mad's lengthy post plus my own thinking on it leads me to vote to lynch Kashta. I vote to lynch Kashta. I am not saying that this is final as there are many hours to go and no doubt twists and turns but that's me for now.

I also like TRS as a vote and would be sort of happyish with one there, as well as some of the other people I have discussed (primarily plant and rbishop I guess).

 

[Coler]

Never said that you voted Ice because he voted for Kashta... but if you claimed to have liked Ice for scum, you likely didn't like Kashta, right? Doesn't make sense that you would, if your #1 suspect was standing on her helping push for her lynch...

Yah that struck me too.

 

[Coler]

A general game list addressing all players of who you think is innocent and who you think is scummy would really help btw folks - I will try and put one up during the day.

 

[mostlycichlids]

'Morning all *yawn* I'm going to have a crazy day in work today folks so am not going to be able to post as much.

(btw someone said something (bkw I think) about me sticking a vote on Zigman for no reason which gave Kashta an available out - I did not stick a vote on Zig for no reason, see my posts for details. Yes my voting Zigman certainly was part of why he got lynched - eh dud lol. I accept responsibility for my mistakes.

I've read it, re-read it and Mad's lengthy post plus my own thinking on it leads me to vote to lynch Kashta. I vote to lynch Kashta. I am not saying that this is final as there are many hours to go and no doubt twists and turns but that's me for now.

I also like TRS as a vote and would be sort of happyish with one there, as well as some of the other people I have discussed (primarily plant and rbishop I guess).

What exactly is your thinking on this, I would like to know?Why not go after plant or TRS, TRS has almost proven guilt as scum in more than one post....What is you basis you haven't explained yourself really at all.

Paul, any reason that you'd quote Luvbugs who was quoting me in your post where you vote for Plantling?

I was agreeing with her logic and mainly responding to this "Red still seems to just have some weird personal vedetta against Kash since we were beat last game. Sorry, but just because she was a "bad guy" last time isn't a good reason for a vote this time around. Thoughts?" She asked for thoughts and these were my thoughts on that.

 

[mostlycichlids]

Never said that you voted Ice because he voted for Kashta... but if you claimed to have liked Ice for scum, you likely didn't like Kashta, right? Doesn't make sense that you would, if your #1 suspect was standing on her helping push for her lynch...

I also was thinking the exact same thing?!!!

 

[ZSandmann]

Is it just me or does Z seem a bit tame this round? I remember him being a little more aggressive with his comments on ppl who he thinks is scum. In the post below he comments on Kashta's wording in one of her posts but reserves judgement b/c of the train that has fallen on her:
Meow, purr purr.
Then he makes a comment about the train on Kashta and his vote on CJ.
Stirring up the low posters, I always do that.
Here he cautions voting on Kash b/c if she were Rebel it would make her talk less? But yet he defends his single vote on CJ.
No, I said if everyone jumps on Kash discussion as a whole will shut down. I think all of us that have played more than a handful of games know that when one person is put up to the vote, the town stops talking.
When he switches to Maverick, there is no case. Just a can't shake how off his posts are.
There was not "much" of a case, agreed. There were a lot of wiggle words in Mavericks few posts that sounded like he was trying to fit in and be part of the discussion without providing anything of real substance.
It's just not the ZSand I knew of old. And IF Kashta is lynched and found to be mucs, I think ZSand should be really looked at.
Look at me now, I white as the driven snow. Well, since the roles are reversed this game I guess I'm more like the yellow snow?
That's all I have time for tonite. I've been looking at Coler also but not really done yet. To be fair, though I've butted heads w/him, his posts seem helpful. But like I said I'm not done yet.

Comments in red, just to tick off the anti-inside posts crowd hehehe. Plant we are obviously on different trains of thought with Kash's last minute vote to save herself. I agree with Dawg that it is better to get votes out earlier in the day so they can be discussed, but the vote for Zig alone doesn't bother me. I still think Kash could be a Muc, or a WG, or what ev, but IMO there are better suspects right now like Red and yourself. Also, the low posters (I'm giving Mav a bit of a pass right now) need to pipe in or they will draw my ire even more so.

CJ, will you wait till the end of the Day agai ntoday to pop in, make two posts and a vote, then disappear for another 48 hours?