I have already posted my thoughts about the last minute vote switch, but for you skimmers, I will post them again.
I have stated that I haven't been able to get much of a read on most people this game. Therefore, I need to kick my own bushes.
I asked Noods a couple of questions that she has not answered to my satisfaction.
I like to vote for my top suspect when placing my vote. How many times have we seen someone grilled for not doing so?
I see you have followed the pack with your vote Kashta, but thats ok.
Keep digging, it appears like you are kicking bushes and trying to be helpful to the town.
In red - Ah yes, you got me there. I'd missed your post where you said that. I hadn't gone back that far after that part of this discussion had continued on.
In blue - Skimming... OMG, I didn't know DD was contagious! :flamed:
I went back even further to see your comments and the posts preceding them. What you pointed out at that time and quoted for me is in red (and reposted below to keep things within context).
I have reread the posts since night fall a couple of times. The only thing I know for sure is that my head hurts.
While I do agree that a last minute vote switch with out a reason at the time you do it is scummy.
I also have to agree that it doesn't make sense if Rich is scum for him to do that to save JB.
As was stated, it would implicate himself and what would be gained?
I have seen the argument that he didn't need to do it to implicate JB as he was about to get lynched.
So why then? :huh:
Since you're agreeing with something someone said about this, I went back even more to re-read which posts you agreed with. Looks like those would have been these two by Mad and by Ice. (Correct me if I'm wrong?)
If you believe that Rich is mafia, why do you think he would be trying to implicate JB? JB was already implicated...he was about to die.
Makes no sense that Rich would expose himself as scum, in order to implicate a dying town player. He'd have been better off just letting a dying townie go, as opposed to be asking to be lynched along with him.
Whether Rich and JB are in actually in communication, I can't say with certainty. Rich's motives, though, were clearly to save JB...not to implicate him.
With nightfall being at 7:00 PM EDT tomorrow, I figure 6:58 would probably be a good time for you...
Think about it Mad. Was there going to ever be a better chance to get rid of Lab? She was much more vocal than JB was. Why not sacrifice 1 (rich)to get 2 (lab,jb)?
Why would Rich jump from mafia to innocent and draw attention to himself and JB and lose 2 mafia and only 1 innocent?
Those were good points. I also agreed with this when I first read these. Waited to see what more would be posted since Ice asked Mad to think more about this.
It makes complete sense for him to jump to Lab to save JB. It's a numbers game. Teams win by keeping same-aligned players around.
As far as exposing himself...who did he expose himself to? Town AND Scum...
With scum in the lead number-wise, Rich exposing his scum alignment ain't really that big of a deal for him. I'd be really surprised if a lot of these Rich votes are still there come nightfall.
Looks like Mad gave this further thought and decided Rich would reasonably make that switch if mafia.
If Rich turns out to be communicating mafia do you think it is safe to assume that JB is also?
Dag then raised another question (addressing that to JL)... sort of a spin-off consideration.
I would be willing to vote for JB if Rich is CM.
What are your thoughts on noods and jpap?
Here, JL answered Dag's question.
What strikes me is that not long ago, you had JB as a suspect and JB had you as a suspect. Would have that been some distancing.
Do you feel pretty dumb about hitting annie?
JL turned that around back onto Rich, suggesting both Rich and JB are scum and were distancing.
JB, want to pitch us on how keeping Rich around even if he is mafia is good for the town. It might work this time! New and Improved Pocket Mafia.
What are your thoughts on rich and noods?
Lol. JL had already made his point in the preceding post. I'm quoting that one just because it's funny.
Communicating would be a good reason for the switch also and one I didn't consider at the time of my possible implication post to be able to take down 2 innocents with his switch.
As this continued... Ice found a good argument which supports the idea that Rich is scummy.
If Rich's the SB as you say JL then his switch last night makes no sense...but that's just my opinion...
Here... Pappy seems to agree (I believe). It makes more sense that Rich would have switched that vote if he's mafia than if he's the SB.
Rich, who are you voting for?
Okay, JL asks Rich this.
I am not sure yet. I really have no feel for anyone's roles and obviously from my first two votes my instincts are not working at all.
Rich didn't have an answer.
This post didn't make sense to me the first time through. I took this to mean earlier that Pappy was trying to direct votes onto Rich by minimizing the risk of getting blown up -- if you're the last 2 on. (Sorry about that BTW, I'm just real skeptical about everyone right now.) But.... I think now I get it now and realized it's a good point.
Without reading some ulterior motive into the statement, it makes more sense to me: If Rich was the SB and he has no preference which team/players die because it's all the same to him in that role... then why would he care which one died between Lab Rat and JB? He wouldn't, as it would have no positive or negative effect on his game.
Here's the post I made later where I caught on.... thinking it makes more sense that Rich is scum to explain his vote switch.
We possibly have 2 mafia to be lynched over the next 2 days plus CI hits. How are they not on the ropes?
Using your argument why then would Rich switch to Lab and out himself and JB? If JB was mafia then Rich may as well let JB die and stay out of the limelight.
You can't have it both ways Mad. Either you think Rich saved JB because they are both mafia or JB is innocent and Rich is setting him up for the next lynch. Third option, Rich is SB or innocent and took out who he thought was mafia of the 2 at the time.
The question about whether Rich is scum comes up again, this time in relation to JB. Ice lists 3 possibilities.
What a beautiful day here in WNC! Went for a nice hike w/ a good friend this morning and we having company for a BBQ & beer....:cheers:
Now on to business......Wiz, the only questions I recall you asking me is "when are you gonna help the town instead of posting fluff?" Well, to be honest I have not really seen you helping much either so :silly:.
All I can post is my opinion (I did that yesterday) which the majority of you find worthless so WTH should I bother? It seems like the majority of the players are in the same boat as I am in; not really knowing who is who so really it is just a best guess situation and hope to goodness you are right. As for my vote on Rich, I am considering moving it off as I am inclined to believe his story. He is either telling the truth or he is the SB. either way, it does the town no good to lynch him.
so far my voting average is not very good. I thought Labby was scum, was not sure about Annie and the players I have leaning innocent are voting or are considering voting for me........need to re-read a little and consider my best option.
Then here, Noods makes another appearance. She addressed other issues then shares with us her thoughts that Rich is not scum. He's either innocent or the SB.... going on to say we should not lynch him at all.
Personally, the main thing I feel most certain about (still) is that Noods is mafia. Would I then take her word at face value where she not only avoids voting him herself but also seems to defend Rich? Uhhh.. nope. No way.
Pappy questioned this too. Good question to pin Noods down and make sure this point is clarified.
Well sure it is possible as it is with all of you. I did say that I am inclined to believe his story.
There is Noods' reply.
After having to read through all this again to keep the different parts together from where it began until the most recent posts, I seriously question the alignment now of those avoiding the Rich-as-scum question. There were too many valid points made supporting this possibility for us to leave this unresolved before the votes are finalized tonight.
-- Sorry for pulling so many quotes at once from so many different people. It just that there're so many posts now that to follow the line of one part of the conversation that it takes re-reading so many pages. It's real hard to go back over them again from start to finish to review how our consensus of opinion changes over time without doing this.
