Jigger... did you try that Google toolbar download? It does make life easier with the highlighting and translating to english features..
ABS\PVC Question
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no. i told you i can only use "back" and "refresh". and "favorites". i use that one too. i dont like downloading too much onto the ole computer. plus, id have to learn how to use it, and that could take years.
T
TnCgal
Guest
Bartender ?
ANOTHER ! NOOOOWW !!! And this time make it a double ?
OK. I want everyone to freeze.
I am going to lock this thread while I do some serious edit/delete work on it. I want everyone involved to take take five. When I get back I want to see some serious kissing and making up... er, at least a hearty handshake.
See you in a minute.
ANOTHER ! NOOOOWW !!! And this time make it a double ?
OK. I want everyone to freeze.
I am going to lock this thread while I do some serious edit/delete work on it. I want everyone involved to take take five. When I get back I want to see some serious kissing and making up... er, at least a hearty handshake.
See you in a minute.
T
TnCgal
Guest
Ok, this thread is all clean now.
For the record, I wanted to address something that was brought up earlier about Wetman's and my differing opinions as far as using bleach on rocks.
Yes, we DO disagree. In none of my research have I ever found anything that concretely says that bleach should never be used on rock, and IMO it is perfectly safe... as long as it is rinsed thoroughly, dechlorinated and perhaps even left out to dry in the sun.
I have done this many times over with large river rock, and have never had any repercussions from doing so.
This is not to make Wetman's information wrong, we just have different experiences !
For the record, I wanted to address something that was brought up earlier about Wetman's and my differing opinions as far as using bleach on rocks.
Yes, we DO disagree. In none of my research have I ever found anything that concretely says that bleach should never be used on rock, and IMO it is perfectly safe... as long as it is rinsed thoroughly, dechlorinated and perhaps even left out to dry in the sun.
I have done this many times over with large river rock, and have never had any repercussions from doing so.
This is not to make Wetman's information wrong, we just have different experiences !
just for the record, and NOT to restart this arguement.......
that's wrong slip, almost entirely reversed........ plastics are made for chemical and corosion resistance, NOT heat OR high pressure. this is from experience working at an incinerator...... it's 730 in the morning after a long night out and i am not digging out msds sheets for this but if you would care to call either new britain plumbing in nb or bender plumbing in new haven i am sure they will send you whatever you want.
the reason you wouldn't want to boil them as far as i know would be deformities. pvc is a plastic and as such will melt, deform and actually in the instance i am thinking of, shrink. i had to dig out a pipe we were using to transfer hot acidic water and the darn thing actually shrank and deformed, even 4ft down. one of the seams let go when the pipe contracted and a rock dropped into the gap left behind, plugging the drain basically. ***note*** this *was* an extreme case, it was superheated "quench" water used to cool the secondary chamber, and it took 3 or 4 years worth of exposure before we noticed the problem.
boiling it for a fishtank probably wouldn't matter though as tolerances aren't as critical and leakage isn't an issue. whatever deformities happen probably wouldn't matter.
tnc, i would be slightly iffy about bleaching stuff like my lace rock, it seems to be pretty porous...............
do NOT use this to restart the arguement...... if you would like references i will dig them up..... email me or something.......
Holy cripes...I missed the fun. Late or not, I thought I'd throw my 2 cents in. All of the rock I recently used in decorating my 150 was thoroughly scrubbed in water, rinsed well...and is now a wonderful home for all my fish. There's no way in heck I'm going to boil 200lbs of rock. I can't see any real point to bleaching either. Can anyone tell me exactly what it is we're trying to kill? If you have a rock from a river, odds are just letting it dry will kill off just about everything you'd care about.
As far as plastics go. You can bleach them if you'd like. I'd be careful about boiling them though...
http://www.plasticsgroup.com/professor_polymer/msds_sheets/polifil_rp_abs/
Note the melting point of ABS is about 230F which really isn't much warmer than boiling.
I'm in the camp of:
1. If you'd adding something to your tank and you don't know enough about it to know whether or not it will leech anything into your tank, or dissolve, etc. Don't add it.
2. Anything you add to your tank should be throughly cleaned of debris and rinse well. Never use soap. I personally whould never use bleach either.
3. There is no right/wrong answer. Learn as much as you can about what you're adding and what possible contaminants it would be likely to carry and treat it appropriately.
As far as plastics go. You can bleach them if you'd like. I'd be careful about boiling them though...
http://www.plasticsgroup.com/professor_polymer/msds_sheets/polifil_rp_abs/
Note the melting point of ABS is about 230F which really isn't much warmer than boiling.
I'm in the camp of:
1. If you'd adding something to your tank and you don't know enough about it to know whether or not it will leech anything into your tank, or dissolve, etc. Don't add it.
2. Anything you add to your tank should be throughly cleaned of debris and rinse well. Never use soap. I personally whould never use bleach either.
3. There is no right/wrong answer. Learn as much as you can about what you're adding and what possible contaminants it would be likely to carry and treat it appropriately.
T
TnCgal
Guest
Nonono... you don't "need" to bleach the pipes. It's an added precaution to disinfect them from any harmful substances that may have settled on them, just as if you were to bleach the inside of an old tank before you used it.... some people do, some people don't, just different ways to skin a cat.
Please note also that I said that bleaching rock is safe as long as you rinse it, dechlorinate it, and let it dry. Let's think about the big picture here. If you have a rock that is porous enough to allow Chlorine bleach to penetrate it, wouldn't it make sense that the same rock will allow dechlorinator to eliminate the residual Chlorine ?
There is one other point here that I wanted to make, and please note this concept is one for the experienced fish-keepers to explore .... not beginners - so newbies, plug your ears so you don't hear this :
There are many old-timers right here on this very board and others that don't dechlorinate their water before they use it. Now it's important to know that fish-keepers that go this route are perfectly in tune with what additives and chemical treatments their water supply is currently undergoing so that they can make allowances for that. I myself never dechlorinate my pond water and have never had a fish death as a result. My point to this is that Chlorine in essence is not as deadly as initially thought. In large enough volumes, yes, of course.
A rock that has been bleached to eliminate deadly riverbed bacteria or parasites, then rinsed, dechlorinated and dried is perfectly safe.
Please note also that I said that bleaching rock is safe as long as you rinse it, dechlorinate it, and let it dry. Let's think about the big picture here. If you have a rock that is porous enough to allow Chlorine bleach to penetrate it, wouldn't it make sense that the same rock will allow dechlorinator to eliminate the residual Chlorine ?
There is one other point here that I wanted to make, and please note this concept is one for the experienced fish-keepers to explore .... not beginners - so newbies, plug your ears so you don't hear this :
There are many old-timers right here on this very board and others that don't dechlorinate their water before they use it. Now it's important to know that fish-keepers that go this route are perfectly in tune with what additives and chemical treatments their water supply is currently undergoing so that they can make allowances for that. I myself never dechlorinate my pond water and have never had a fish death as a result. My point to this is that Chlorine in essence is not as deadly as initially thought. In large enough volumes, yes, of course.
A rock that has been bleached to eliminate deadly riverbed bacteria or parasites, then rinsed, dechlorinated and dried is perfectly safe.
Hey Slip,
Your right that plumbers dont bleach the pipes before installing them. But, if you are on a city water system You are drinking the stuff every day. So in a way, the city is bleaching the pipes for you.
Your right that plumbers dont bleach the pipes before installing them. But, if you are on a city water system You are drinking the stuff every day. So in a way, the city is bleaching the pipes for you.
Slip: heres waht you can do (since your so ANTI-bleach)
Take a rock from a pond thats full of viruses, bad bacteria, and general bad water quality. Then we can compare the results:
1.) you take the rock and just rinse it under water, add it to your tank.
2.) I will bleach it, then add it to my tank.
Lets just see what happens to your tank.
Take a rock from a pond thats full of viruses, bad bacteria, and general bad water quality. Then we can compare the results:
1.) you take the rock and just rinse it under water, add it to your tank.
2.) I will bleach it, then add it to my tank.
Lets just see what happens to your tank.
