Are Water Changes Actually Necessary?

Do you change your water?

  • No

    Votes: 3 0.7%
  • Not unless conditions require it (like high nitrates)

    Votes: 60 13.8%
  • Yes, I do it on a specific timeline (daily, weekly, whatever)

    Votes: 358 82.3%
  • Undecided / Other

    Votes: 14 3.2%

  • Total voters
    435
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The Op asked us if WC is necessary and why. Why is it thier job to carry the burden of proof for our answers?

As for the benefit of assumption all you are saying is that we the majority have the benefit of one of the worst ways to make a decision known to man.

He may have asked, but by his statements it is obvious that he believes they are NOT important. Since they are arguing against the general assumption, one that has been slowly modified and built upon though time, they carry the burden to prove that the generally accepted idea is not right.

As for your second claim, that the majority having the benefit of the doubt rather than the minority being 'one of the worst ways to make a decision known to man', I beg to differ.
A few examples. The majority believes that murder is a bad thing. Should we say that perhaps those that believe murder is a good thing have the benefit of the doubt?
The majority holds that beating a child is a bad thing, while a minority might claim that it is their right as a parent. Should we have to prove to them that child abuse is a bad thing, or should they have to prove that it is a good thing?
The majority of people would say that psychology is an important scientific field, one that helps many people. But should we have to prove all this to Tom Cruise with page after page of facts? I would rather see his evidence that it is a sham!
For a long time, the accepted conclusion about our Earth was that it was flat, an was the center of the universe. However, evidence was provided by scientists that proved time and time again that it was not. The scientific community fulfilled it's burden of proof against the accepted conclusion.
The majority of people, as supported by this poll, believe that water changes should be performed regularly, and are important. A huge amount of anecdotal data also supports this conclusion. The OP, feels that they are not, but provides no strong evidence to support his claims.
 
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Its always good to remember this.
 
"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Its always good to remember this.

Have you ever READ Nietzsche, or are you just blind quoting him?
 
I feel the OP has baited our community into an argument to satisfy his/her desire for confrontation.

I have chosen to replace a fair portion of water in my tanks on a regular basis as I see my fish become more colorful and lively after I do. When my fish are stressed their colors fade so I do not believe for a second that changing the water is stressing them. My water goes in at the same temperature and PH as it comes out. The fish I keep these days live longer than fish I have kept in the past when I did infrequent water changes. I have not seen or read anything that convinces me NOT to do partial water changes as I have only experienced positive benefits from doing so.

To the OP... good luck with your fish. It is my belief you will need it.

Q

Edit: PS: Most fresh water fish live in bodies of water where there is constant water change. It would seem to me that placing them in a closed system where very little new water enters is in opposition to a natural state.
 
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"You have your way. I have my way. As for the right way, the correct way, and the only way, it does not exist." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Its always good to remember this.

This doesn't apply. You add 1 and 1 and get 2, I add 1 plus 1 and get 3. One of these is correct.

In answer to OP's questions. Most admit that fish waste is comprised of more then nitrates and phosphates, some of these materials will be metabolized in a well planted tank, some won't and will accumulate. The rate these materials accumulate in the tank will be dependent on water changes. Other materials may be consumed (such as carbonate). Any and all systems degrade at one rate or another. The use of denitratrors and other "filters" may mitigate this effect but it extends the time to failure, it does not eliminate the end result. OP admits this when he suggests salts and other additives may be necessary to avoid catastrophic consequences. Frequent water changes removes and replenishes these materials retrospectively. As others have mentioned saying pollutants do not exist because they don't show up on the tests he has available is a false argument, this does not disprove their existence.

Regular water changes provide stability to a tank. Depending on frequency and size pollutants are kept within a given range. The following table is an example of this. Its called a geometric series that culminates in a specific range that will define water parameters. Starting with a new tank, pollution levels are at 0. 10 parts of pollutant X is produced each week. At the end of week 1 the tank contains 10 parts of pollutant X. When a water change is performed of 25%, the pollution level drops to 7.5. After Week 13 the final range is attained. Pollutant X will vary between 30 and 40 parts for infinity with no changes to the system. This system results in the stability that fish live with under natural conditions. (though with higher pollution levels).

Hope this helps.



Beginning Pollution End After Water change
Week 1 0 10 10 7.5
Week 2 7.5 10 17.5 13.125
Week 3 13.125 10 23.125 17.34375
Week 4 17.34375 10 27.34375 20.5078125
Week 5 20.5078 10 30.5078 22.88085938
Week 6 22.8808 10 32.8808 24.6606
Week 7 24.6606 10 34.6606 25.9954
Week 8 25.9954 10 35.9954 26.9966
Week 9 26.9966 10 36.9966 27.74741
Week 10 27.7474 10 37.7474 28.3105
Week 11 28.3105 10 38.3105 28.7329
Week 12 28.7329 10 38.7329 29.0497
Week 13 29.0497 10 39.0497 29.2872
Week 14 29.2872 10 39.2872 29.4654
Week 15 29.4654 10 39.4654 29.5990
Week 16 29.5990 10 39.5990 29.6993
Week 17 29.6993 10 39.6993 29.7744

Sorry, this isn't as clean as I'd like.
 
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i think we're breaking new ground here.

i would like to say to kaz though...
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because of course without pics everyone's going to think you're on...
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as is it is many members are waving the...
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hopefully it can stay civil, we can all learn something and the thread doesn't get a...
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cause i'd hate to see someone get
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that would not be too...
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i think we can all show
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where
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is due.

:chillpill::cheers: regards and have a nice day all. :joke:
 
This doesn't apply. You add 1 and 1 and get 2, I add 1 plus 1 and get 3. One of these is correct.

In answer to OP's questions. Most admit that fish waste is comprised of more then nitrates and phosphates, some of these materials will be metabolized in a well planted tank, some won't and will accumulate. The rate these materials accumulate in the tank will be dependent on water changes. Other materials may be consumed (such as carbonate). Any and all systems degrade at one rate or another. The use of denitratrors and other "filters" may mitigate this effect but it extends the time to failure, it does not eliminate the end result. OP admits this when he suggests salts and other additives may be necessary to avoid catastrophic consequences. Frequent water changes removes and replenishes these materials retrospectively. As others have mentioned saying pollutants do not exist because they don't show up on the tests he has available is a false argument, this does not disprove their existence.

Regular water changes provide stability to a tank. Depending on frequency and size pollutants are kept within a given range. The following table is an example of this. Its called a geometric series that culminates in a specific range that will define water parameters. Starting with a new tank, pollution levels are at 0. 10 parts of pollutant X is produced each week. At the end of week 1 the tank contains 10 parts of pollutant X. When a water change is performed of 25%, the pollution level drops to 7.5. After Week 13 the final range is attained. Pollutant X will vary between 30 and 40 parts for infinity with no changes to the system. This system results in the stability that fish live with under natural conditions. (though with higher pollution levels).

Hope this helps.



Beginning Pollution End After Water change
Week 1 0 10 10 7.5
Week 2 7.5 10 17.5 13.125
Week 3 13.125 10 23.125 17.34375
Week 4 17.34375 10 27.34375 20.5078125
Week 5 20.5078 10 30.5078 22.88085938
Week 6 22.8808 10 32.8808 24.6606
Week 7 24.6606 10 34.6606 25.9954
Week 8 25.9954 10 35.9954 26.9966
Week 9 26.9966 10 36.9966 27.74741
Week 10 27.7474 10 37.7474 28.3105
Week 11 28.3105 10 38.3105 28.7329
Week 12 28.7329 10 38.7329 29.0497
Week 13 29.0497 10 39.0497 29.2872
Week 14 29.2872 10 39.2872 29.4654
Week 15 29.4654 10 39.4654 29.5990
Week 16 29.5990 10 39.5990 29.6993
Week 17 29.6993 10 39.6993 29.7744

Sorry, this isn't as clean as I'd like.

I like this answer.

The levels will really stay below 40 for infinity? Thats really nice to know. I always wondered if things would eventually get to high with partial WC schedule without a close to 100% reset now and then.
 
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