CO2 Questions (new setup)

So let me see if I get this right....

I am going to remove peat from my tank and over then next 1-2 weeks do my usual or slightly more frequent 30% water changes. At the end of this I should have a closer to tap parms of 3dKH (maybe slightly lower due to driftwood) and a PH of 6.8 or so. I will install my CO2 and utlize the SMS122 PH controller and set for 6.4PH. I will set my buble counter to 3bps. Sound good so far?

I don't understand why I would shut of CO2 at night when I have a PH controller. Set at 6.4 it will shut off when it gets there, so night time/lights out it will most likely shut off anyways, but maintain a more constant PH/CO2 lever, correct?

Thanks!

Ted
 
thadius65 said:
So let me see if I get this right....

I am going to remove peat from my tank and over then next 1-2 weeks do my usual or slightly more frequent 30% water changes. At the end of this I should have a closer to tap parms of 3dKH (maybe slightly lower due to driftwood) and a PH of 6.8 or so. I will install my CO2 and utlize the SMS122 PH controller and set for 6.4PH. I will set my buble counter to 3bps. Sound good so far?

I don't understand why I would shut of CO2 at night when I have a PH controller. Set at 6.4 it will shut off when it gets there, so night time/lights out it will most likely shut off anyways, but maintain a more constant PH/CO2 lever, correct?

Thanks!

Ted
Click to expand...

Sounds good Ted:

Make sure you have calibrated your probe properly. Nothing replaces good old observation. I don't put 100% trust in the instruments, they are merely there to help us. I had a pH probe go bad while I was on vacation, so bad things can happen when all of our eggs are in that basket.

by observation I mean the following:

Are my plants outgassing O2 regularly...are they growing...are they stunted...are there any algal blooms...

Are my fish hanging out at the top. Do they apprear stressed or happy? Are they spawning?

Each thing adds up to your whole picture.

You do not need to shut off your CO2 at night....it isn't necessary. That said, You need to have good water movement for O2 dissolution. The key to getting where you need to be with this is to take the least path of resistance, observe and determine what is best for you. You may wake up and find all of the fish at the top "gasping" That is a sign of too much CO2 and not enough O2 in the form of water movement or plant O2 outgassing <pearling>. One remedy is to run an airstone at night. Personally, I kill two birds with one stone. I just turn off the pH controller/CO2 with the lights. This way my CO2 gas lasts twice as long. There is no need to maintain a 6.4 pH overnight. Your fish don't care, and your plants will not utilize the CO2 when the lights are off, so you are just gassing for no reason IMO. If you shut it off at night, your pH will likely inch up to about 6.7 and in the morning, when the lights go back on and your CO2 resumes, it will right it at a measured pace. You never have to wake up to fish at the surface.
remember, CO2 runs, your pH is 6.4 your lights are on, you dose ferts, your plants grow, that said, at night, CO2 on, pH 6.4 but no lights, so the plants will not outgas O2, so available O2 for your fish is not as plentiful as it is during lights on. This is why many either turn it off at night, or leave it on the controller, but have an airstone run when lights are off.
You will find out what works best for you. I still don't know your fert schedule or filtration. This helps determine a lot as well. Hope this helps.
 
Last edited:
Ferts..... Should that be my focus between now and near tap parms with my water? Currently, the only thing I put in is excel (not a fert). I was using a liquid 0-0-5 or something along those lines. But nothing right now.

I guess I have some more reading to do. Thanks!
 
fresh_newby, I am on board with you about the low KH possibilities... if this is true then its good news to me, one less thing to fuss about. But you could have gone about breaking the news a bit differently. I mean, its pretty well common knowledge here that you should maintain a min 3-4* KH, and that if your KH is too low you could have a PH crash. I simply took that for truth since like I said, its pretty common knowledge. I have not myself read anything on this forum that contradicts that (not to say there wasnt some threads that I missed somewhere - thats always possible). So obviously it will take alot to persuade people of this thinking to this new idea. Perhaps it would have been better to start a thread titled something like, 'debating the low KH myth' or 'you dont really need high KH with CO2'... and present your findings and that link to the planted tank forum. But instead here you have picked a thread with a CO2 newby asking for advice and a knowledgable aquarist has brought up the common information, and you have practically attacked them about it. With your attitude here I would not have beleived a thing you said if it wasnt for the link to the planted tank.
And just because the are fish somewhere that live in a ph of 4.5 doesnt prove much. I mean fish live in very different environments, like say the bottom of the ocean for example. But that doesnt mean that my Tiger Lotus and Clown Loaches will thrive at the bottom of the ocean. You also shouldnt be continously double-posting, and if you want to debate a particular topic you should start a new thread instead of hijacking, thats all just common forum etiquette.
 
Wow loaches thanks for the advice and concern. I don't think; however, that this info helps Ted very much.

I did not come here to persuade everyone, convert anyone, or the like. If you re-read this thread you can see that I was clearly attacked, my intellect was attacked, and even my maturity was attacked. All because one one line...I strongly disagree Again, this is not helping Ted very much. I was perusing the forum as I do many things. As you can see I don't post very much, I read. I did not come here to start a thread about how pH crashes are a myth, or Soft water rules ..... I came upon this post and thought...hey, I can help this kid with some info before he starts adding a bunch of stuff to his new tank and complicating things.

Yes, because fish in South America live in a pH of 4.5, that does prove something. I was adressing fish tolerability, not whether your tiger lotus will grow there. It proves they tolerate an acidic pH as low as 4.3.

I guess all I will apologize for is the double posting, only because I am at work multitasking and when another thought comes to mind to help Ted, I post it. Sorry for the double posting...btw your fish pics and tanks on your site are very nice. Good job~

As for hijacking, I am doing nothing of the sort. Someone is asking for help and asking questions, and everything I have posted has been relavant to Ted and helping him get his aquarium up and running as simply, efficiently and successfully as possible. That said...


Ted:

Ferts. Yes you are right, excel is not a fert.
You need to dose macros and micros. I first want to make sure you plant this thing well. Lets get more info from you. How about a list of flora, both present and projected since I already saw your critter list. Also do you plan to add another wpg when you add the CO2?
 
Last edited:
Kid? Thanks.... Feels good at 41 to not be called an old man.

Plants are as follows:

(2) large amazon swords
(3) amazon swords propagated from above (small)
(2) large red ludwigia
(2) large balls of Java Moss
(3) some type of grass (not sure what it is) it propagates by growing shoots with new plants and continues with these runners....

That is it for now.

Peat removed tonight and 40% water change. Excel added along with 0-0-3 ferts.

Thanks!
Ted
 
thadius65 said:
Kid? Thanks.... Feels good at 41 to not be called an old man.

Plants are as follows:

(2) large amazon swords
(3) amazon swords propagated from above (small)
(2) large red ludwigia
(2) large balls of Java Moss
(3) some type of grass (not sure what it is) it propagates by growing shoots with new plants and continues with these runners....

That is it for now.

Peat removed tonight and 40% water change. Excel added along with 0-0-3 ferts.

Thanks!
Ted
Click to expand...
Wow someone a year older than me????
sorry about this kid thing....it was not meant derogatorily <like the "child" reference to me was...lol>

It looks like you also need some fast growing nutrient sponge type stem plants as well once you have your CO2 hooked up.
Once you get your lighting upped and your CO2 hooked up, ask around <or I can send you some> and get a few stems that outcompete alge and gorw fast. i have some Hygrophila balsamica that workks nicely for this. Also some Limnophila or some najas or water sprite. The key to doing this right is to be heavily planted. You will have to start a fert schedul as well. I suggest going to Tom Barr's site and read up on things like Estimative Index and such. His link is www.barrreport.com
I speak to him regularly and he has pioneered the EI way of doing ferts. This is a great way because plants get what they need, there is no need for over precise measuring and mixing, and because with this method you do 50% water changes weekly to reset the tank, you don't need to use inaccurate test kits and overthink this and algae is not an issue <as long as you have your CO2 up to 20-30ppm.>
Anyway, let me know if you need me to send you some plants. Wait until you get your CO2 set up though, but when you do, send me 4 bucks for shipping and I will hook you up if you would like.
 
Hey no prob. Although I think information like this should be shared to the entire community not just to one individual. If maintaining a certain KH value is relatively unimportant then people need to know. You are right though, djlen did come down on you pretty hard. I would say that was in resopnse to more than just one phrase though. We should never assume who people are either. We have no idea who people are and even if they say one thing they very well could be something else.
I didnt mean to confuse the issue by throwing a tiger lotus in my example.... so I will repeat with the plant removed: "And just because there are fish somewhere that live in a ph of 4.5 doesnt prove much. I mean fish live in very different environments, like say the bottom of the ocean for example. But that doesnt mean that my Clown Loaches will thrive at the bottom of the ocean." I am not debating that some or most fish cant survive in a ph of 4.5, just your reasoning that because there are certain fish that do in a certain place, that all can. A Clown loach cannot live in the ocean even though fish live there, similarly you probably can't put a And I didnt mean to play mod on you there... I was out of place. I just come from forums that are a lot more strict than AC is... a lot more.

I am curious though, you mention that "2 or more is FINE", yet alot of the information you reference suggests KH of .1 is ok. Is there a reason you are saying 2*KH, and not less? Or is it simply because thats what yours naturaly sits at, but less is also ok? I do beleive before I started dosing bicarb that my KH was less than 1*, but its been so long I forget exactly, would have to check my tap to see what it is.
 
*shrug*
From my understanding a 3-6Gh is dead on.

the drop of Ph due to co2 isn't the same kind of drop from things like peat or coral from what I know, too.

I've personally never heard of anyone hardening their water because my water is 6ppm Gh and read that it was solid. Without changing anything ive just added co2 in Excel and yeast forms without showing any negative side-effects on my fish.

I have seen cories die from a change in Gh due to stones and gravel in the water however. Though easily confused with the stress of a waterchange I think it has more to do with a swing in Gh from rock and substrate.

Changing your Gh by means of rock (or coral) will mean a Gh shift whenever you do a waterchange.

If your tap water has 3-6ppm you will see drops in Ph but that isnt a drastic shock like constant changes in Gh every water change.

Getting a tank to 'crash' would suck but im not really too sure how much Co2 can build up if you have timers and or its just a yeast system. I bet your PH would have to drop lower than 5 or something but i've never seen it happen.

*shrug*

Match your water with the tapwater as much as you can if you can get away with it.
 
Fresh_newby,

Great pics on your website. Is that an SAE? Nice aquascaping.

I really want to get a carpet like effect with Riccia or someting else. As I await my water parms, I am thinking about substrate and ferts as you mentioned. I currently have medium to large quartz like gravel. That most likely will not cut it. I am afraid to rip and replace though and disrupt my fish friends. Possibly looking to do eco complete, kitty litter or soilmaster, etc. Still in the thinking phase though.

In regards to plants. Yes I would appreciate some and will gladly send you $4 for shipping. If you accept paypal, I will compensate for the charge. I will advise. Parms tonight are no better. getting an immediate 0-1ppm on my KH. More to come.

Thanks,

Ted
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
AquariaCentral.com
Top Bottom