do fish feel pain

[skeletalmachine]

I believe the paper by Dr. Rose does in fact put forth a strong case that fish do not feel feel pain, as humans do. However, it does not seem to prove that fish feel nothing at all. In fact, it does point out several large differences in the operation of the fish brain as opposed to human brain, notably how vision is handled. I find it strange that despite the absense of the developed part of the brain human use in vision that the fish can still see. Why then is it assumed that without the highly developed part of the brain that humans use when feeling pain that fish can not also experience pain? It would seem to me that fish may too process injurous stimuli in a different manor just as they do with vision. Fish may therefor not experience pain in the same way that we do but it may be no less unpleasant.

I have become very intereted in this subject now and may even try reading some of the "reader friendly" references outlined at the bottom of the paper. heh

 

[slipknottin]

It might be argued that fish have the capacity to generate the psychological experience of pain by a different process than that occurring in the frontal lobes of the human brain, but such an argument is insupportable. The capacity to experience pain, as we know it, has required the massive expansion of our cerebral hemispheres, thus allocating large numbers of brain cells to the task of conscious experience, including the emotional reaction of pain. The small, relatively simple fish brain is fully devoted to regulating just the functions of which a fish is capable. A fish brain is simple and efficient, and capable of only a limited number of operations

 

[Slappy*McFish]

Pain is relative. The real question is "Do fish Suffer?"..and I don't think they are capable of suffering. Without suffering, pain is just a sensation.

 

[skeletalmachine]

"The capacity to experience pain, as we know it , has required the massive expansion of our cerebral hemispheres..."

That does not preclude fish from experiencing pain in a different form. I would hesitate using Dr. Roses paper as definitive proof that fish do not feel any form of pain at all.

 

[slipknottin]

I believe hes saying "as we know it" in reference to how humans feel pain. Not that fish might experience it differently.

 

[slipknottin]

Oh, and even if you assume there is another way that fish can experience pain, you still need to argue The Dr.'s other key point, that fish are not conciously aware. No animal can experience the sensation of pain without being aware of it.

 

[skeletalmachine]

Isn't that what I was saying to you? His paper provides strong evidence against fish feeling pain as humans do but does not fully address the possibility that fish feel some other form of pain. I would fully agree that fish do not feel pain as we know it. Could it not be however, considering the circumstances in which the stimuli is recieved, that another form of pain is in no way less traumatic to the animal?

I do not disagree with Dr. Rose's paper at all (who am I to disagree with him! ), in fact I found it very interesting. I should thank you for bringing it to my attention, only you didn't.

 

[CharlyBaltimore]

http://www.peta-online.org/news/1200/1200wyoming.html

 

[slipknottin]

Well we know that pain, emotions, and awareness are from localized regions in the brain mostly the neocortex. If pain is experienced some other way, such as the nerves directly releasing the pain causing chemicals, then the fish still needs to be conciously aware of this to experience it.

This means that not only will different parts of the brain or spine be used to trigger and release the chemicals that cause pain, but they must also make the fish conciously aware.

If this is indeed the case, then all animals that have more complex would never have developed larger brains, but instead would already have been conciously aware from parts of the brainstem and spinal cord.

If this is the case, what explains the lost sense of awareness humans experience when the cerebral hemispheres are destroyed?

 

[slipknottin]

Originally posted by CharlyBaltimore
http://www.peta-online.org/news/1200/1200wyoming.html

PETA is not a valid source for anything. They have lied, exagerated, or anything else they can do to get their points across.

None of their quoting shows sources, nor do they elaborate on how these people came to this conclusion.

PETA cant be used in anything other than coffee table talk. They have a habit of just insulting things they dont like, instead of using factual evidence.

If you look at their evidence they use in their anti-fishing crusade, the only thing they say is "fish need to feel pain like all other animals otherwise they wouldnt survive" I suppose this means that my starfish with no brain feels pain.