Mafia #51 - Mafia Citizens - The Play

[jpappy789]

Ok bold text one I am leaning mor towards you being scum now. Assuming you are scum this would make sense. You hoping that Zig is not a rebel sense the rebel role is to get rid of mafia. Bold text two, even though it says Mad is a citizen that don't mean he is not mafia, a protection would make his lynch look like he was just a citizen...You say the only thing to do is follow his lead....this seems very scummy to me. Lastly you vote to lynch Kash right off the bat and later retract the vote but never really went into detail but to say you wanted to see what comes about in discussion.

Ok next here you retract your vote only after stating that kash and plant stand out as scum...If you feel this way why retract your vote so soon? You say because it is so obvious but if so than why retract your vote?

Hmmm in a later post jpappy confirms you and him have the same top suspects....two scum here following mads lead?

This would confirm why mad was going so hard after kash and why you and zsand are plotting together now. Scum move all the way....seems playing under the controll of the DON. You mention reverse psychology then you mention not playing by thinking like scum any scum player would try and play like this.


Here are my thoughts up till now.
Zsand-Definatelty mafia
Jpappy-Likely scum plotting with jpapp
plant-Suspect to be mafia scum
Coler-Innocent as far as I can see.
Kashta-possible scum butinstinct tell me the mafia just wants us to think that...a blackmail move
Dawg-Always hard to tell my instinct tells me he is scum but that is not based off any real evidence.
Luvbugz-Pretty neutral, nothing that stands out through day two.
Maverick-Almost surely an innocent.
DD-Pretty quiet, but that is how she is in the games I have played.
bkw-defensive and not posting much no read for sure but instinct tells me she may be scummy.
cj-Don't really have a read on yet, not enough posts.
Zig-Back as a result of being protected not sure from who yet.

There is my list for everyone esp. you zsand sense you are wanting to know what everyones thoughts are....another reason for me to pin you as scum.

what the hell?

This makes zero sense. first of all the mafia are the gods guys and the rebels are scum so obviously we don't want Zig to be a rebel. Therefore the don is good which you insinuate me and zs are under the control of. Problem is that the wise guys can't communicate with the don. You obviously didn't read the rules or you're just throwing complete garbage out there.

And how are me and zs suddenly working together? Apparently we have the same suspects. So what?

And my bit about reverse psych was saying that there is no point in guessing why the mucs chose mad because there are tons of reasons and it's a waste of time. I've played with this same attitude for many games now. Nothing new...

 

[jpappy789]

should read "good guys" above

MC's last post is complete BS but I would think a rebel would know which side they're on...I hope. And I'm not so sure JL would insert a rebel due to the mist unless he felt things were becoming uneven. It's very tempting to vote for him though.

 

[jpappy789]

I would also like to add that I think it's really cool how I am plotting with myself (jpapp). I must have serious mental problems...

 

[Kashta]

Some answers...

When a player that was presumed dead comes back from protection the town will be told they have returned - since they were protected, when they die, I will not reveal anything more than they were a citizen.

This line in bold above tells me that even if Zig was a mucs night 1 since he was protected by whomever he would have been called a citizen when he died. We really don't know if Zig is or ever was a citizen if I am reading this right. Hopefully he's a citizen.

mg:what is that 4 citizens dead today

It means he was protected, there are three types, the Mafias, the Rebels, and Balas. He was a citizen but he may of been turned.

I didn't catch this earlier when JL posted it but Dirtydawg just brought this up. The statement from JL that Dirtydawg bolded says anyone who died and was revealed as a citizen could actually have been a either citizen, a rebel, or a wiseguy IF they were protected. We just don't know it. So if someone (rebels, mafia, or bala) put protection on them and they die... we have no way to tell what they were because JL isn't going to be specific? If this is true, then any of the 4 citizens we lost tonight may not have been innocent citizens. They could also have been mafia or rebels if someone protected them. And any of them could come back later (like Zigman did) and we still won't be able to tell which role they have?

Red you got me man, I was positive you were scum. The only thing left to do is follow Mad's lead and see where it takes us.

I vote to lynch Kash.

We can't lose any more Citizens... especially not from our own lynching.

According to that part above from JL and Dirtydawg, we can't tell if they were citizens or mafia (don/wiseguy) or rebels. The problem I have with this is... how are we supposed to narrow anything down if we're not sure which role a player had before they died because we cant' tell who gets protected?

With Mad being the Hit victim it really makes Kash and Plant stand out as scum, but that also bothers me because its so obvious.

I retract my vote for Kash.

I acted too quickly, we should discuss this a bit before

Ok bold text one I am leaning mor towards you being scum now. Assuming you are scum this would make sense. You hoping that Zig is not a rebel sense the rebel role is to get rid of mafia. Bold text two, even though it says Mad is a citizen that don't mean he is not mafia, a protection would make his lynch look like he was just a citizen...You say the only thing to do is follow his lead....this seems very scummy to me. Lastly you vote to lynch Kash right off the bat and later retract the vote but never really went into detail but to say you wanted to see what comes about in discussion.

Ok next here you retract your vote only after stating that kash and plant stand out as scum...If you feel this way why retract your vote so soon? You say because it is so obvious but if so than why retract your vote?

I kinda wanted to know what Zsandman was thinking as this happened, too, then wasn't all that sure I wanted the answer I'd get. lol... But since MC is asking the same thing, I might as well.

Zsandman - (1) why did you vote for me then, and (2) why did you retract it?

This really looks like a Day 1 list, which is sad. Right now I think the best move would be to go for Kashta and maybe as those seem to me to be the best suspects, but I'm open for anything at this point. Again, I am not sure quick votes are the best thing to do.

That was a horrible nightfall...I may have to rethink the Kashta vote and roll with it this time. But I would rather discuss it than vote quick.

If Dirtydawg's interpretation of what JL said is true, then using me as a litmus test to figure this out isn't going to do the town any good. If I'm scum, a wiseguy, or an innocent... all someone else has to do is protect me first before the town strings me up and JL will only tell you that I'm a citizen. I'm still out of the game at that point, of course, but the town still won't know anything more than we already do now.

 

[Coler]

Aw man that sucked. I'm just in work now and only had time to read the nightfall result. I will try and catch up on the thread but again work is a bit crazy (in the middle of a trial)...we are in serious trouble guys...Zigman back on protection and all we know is he is most clearly wiseguy or rebel, the way I see the rules, two more townies down, and wtf happened on the Kashta vote.

I am so tempted to stick my vote on Kashta right now but will hold off as this is the start of a long game day.

I also need a rules re-read as my initial presumption is that the protection on Mad must have been town correct or not ?

Anyway...sorry for being under pressure outside game guys - in the middle of a trial here. I will get on the thread most likely late this evening my time. May be able to look in during the day, may not.

 

[Coler]

Scratch that - sorry I picked up on someone talking protection and thought it had applied to Mad as I scrolled through the Nightfall aftermath and not Zig who I realise is back with us and we don't know as what.

i.e. RIP Mad it seems.

Well that makes me want to vote Kashta even more as he was hammering her.

 

[Coler]

Bloody hellfire and a UD to boot.

 

[maverickbr77]

Only those that were lynched could be protected so the hits and uds could still tell us something i have to go back and reread a bunch after work and see if i pick up on any trends based on those people as we know there roles for sure

 

[dirtydawg10]

I didn't catch this earlier when JL posted it but Dirtydawg just brought this up. The statement from JL that Dirtydawg bolded says anyone who died and was revealed as a citizen could actually have been a either citizen, a rebel, or a wiseguy IF they were protected. We just don't know it. So if someone (rebels, mafia, or bala) put protection on them and they die... we have no way to tell what they were because JL isn't going to be specific? If this is true, then any of the 4 citizens we lost tonight may not have been innocent citizens. They could also have been mafia or rebels if someone protected them. And any of them could come back later (like Zigman did) and we still won't be able to tell which role they have?



According to that part above from JL and Dirtydawg, we can't tell if they were citizens or mafia (don/wiseguy) or rebels. The problem I have with this is... how are we supposed to narrow anything down if we're not sure which role a player had before they died because we cant' tell who gets protected?





I kinda wanted to know what Zsandman was thinking as this happened, too, then wasn't all that sure I wanted the answer I'd get. lol... But since MC is asking the same thing, I might as well.

Zsandman - (1) why did you vote for me then, and (2) why did you retract it?





If Dirtydawg's interpretation of what JL said is true, then using me as a litmus test to figure this out isn't going to do the town any good. If I'm scum, a wiseguy, or an innocent... all someone else has to do is protect me first before the town strings me up and JL will only tell you that I'm a citizen. I'm still out of the game at that point, of course, but the town still won't know anything more than we already do now.

Not true as Maverick has pointed out. The protection only works for the lynch not hits or UD's.

 

[ZSandmann]

This game is a nightmare/soap opera. The good guys get taken in the middle of the nite and the lynched dead come back to life and u don't know what their alliance is when they come back. The only clue is their lynchwagon. The lynchwagon on TRS has two names that I distrust intensely, Zsand and Kash. Anyone wanna bet if TRS will be getting his wish to play longer?

For two days you have made comment after comment about it being a bad idea to vote Kash. Did you put your protection on her today or something?
Wrong, wrong, and wrong. I have not said it was a bad idea to vote for Kash, I have said I am reluctant to vote Kash because of the trains that lined up on here for two Days and the fact that her getting a PM does not de facto make her scum, she could very well be a Townie PR. Pull the posts if you want to warp what I say, don't throw something like this out without backing.
Here's night 1 voting again:
Nite 1 Final Votes
Kashta - TRS (10), Ice (96), bkw (107), Mad (108)
Maverick - Ice (44), ZS (149)
Rb - bkw (51), Coler (145)
Ice - dawg (58), Luvbugz (159)
DD - jpap (61), jbradt (131)
TRS - DD (65), Maverick (137)
cjt - ZS (101)
Mad - Zigman (123)
Dawg - Rb (160)
Zigman - plant (176), cjt (178), Coler (180), Rb (190), Kash (197)

The protections had to be submitted before nitefall for the following day so since this was nite 1 I'm not sure that JL would allow either team to turn in their protection in the last hour of the day. It would be totally UNFAIR, JL if u did. And you guys would have to trust me that I know nothing about a protection on Zigman even though I was first on him so I would have to guess that Bala has brought Zigman back. Hopefully he is a Townie still.

So now we must vote who we think is most likely NOT to have been picked out by the Rebels for protection and it would be a boon if they were also a Rebel. To get discussions going as we have to start somewhere, I will place a vote on who I think fits the above description. Subject to change as we also have good pr's out there somewhere,

I vote to lynch DangerDoll.

She has very little posts, was on TRL both nights in a row, and her answers to Mad about Kashta were a bit noncommital.

So after trying to run me on a rail you vote DD, because you don't think she would be protected by the Rebels. Not the best reason to vote for someone IMO. I really expected my name to be bolded right there.

Ok bold text one I am leaning mor towards you being scum now. Assuming you are scum this would make sense. You hoping that Zig is not a rebel sense the rebel role is to get rid of mafia. Bold text two, even though it says Mad is a citizen that don't mean he is not mafia, a protection would make his lynch look like he was just a citizen...You say the only thing to do is follow his lead....this seems very scummy to me. Lastly you vote to lynch Kash right off the bat and later retract the vote but never really went into detail but to say you wanted to see what comes about in discussion.
Yeah I am hoping Zig is not a Rebel now, what is so difficult to understand about that sentence? The Citizens are aligned with the MAFIA, so we would want to kill the Rebel to win the game. I retracted my vote BECAUSE Mad may not have been a real citizen, it was a hasty vote thrown out because I was frustrated with all the apparent Citizens we have lost, and because it is all too obvious that Mad was gunning for Kash and he was the one Hit. That last bit makes me incredibly nervous about running straight at Kash.
Ok next here you retract your vote only after stating that kash and plant stand out as scum...If you feel this way why retract your vote so soon? You say because it is so obvious but if so than why retract your vote?
Yeah I explained it above and in my original post.
Hmmm in a later post jpappy confirms you and him have the same top suspects....two scum here following mads lead?
Dang you got us, shucks, <kicks the floor>
This would confirm why mad was going so hard after kash and why you and zsand are plotting together now. Scum move all the way....seems playing under the controll of the DON. You mention reverse psychology then you mention not playing by thinking like scum any scum player would try and play like this.

Here are my thoughts up till now.
Zsand-Definatelty mafia
Jpappy-Likely scum plotting with jpapp
plant-Suspect to be mafia scum
Coler-Innocent as far as I can see.
Kashta-possible scum butinstinct tell me the mafia just wants us to think that...a blackmail move
Dawg-Always hard to tell my instinct tells me he is scum but that is not based off any real evidence.
Luvbugz-Pretty neutral, nothing that stands out through day two.
Maverick-Almost surely an innocent.
DD-Pretty quiet, but that is how she is in the games I have played.
bkw-defensive and not posting much no read for sure but instinct tells me she may be scummy.
cj-Don't really have a read on yet, not enough posts.
Zig-Back as a result of being protected not sure from who yet.

There is my list for everyone esp. you zsand sense you are wanting to know what everyones thoughts are....another reason for me to pin you as scum.

Oh dear Sweet Space Baby Who Lives in a Bubble Somewhere Near Jupiter!!!, I wanted to actually know what everyone thinks of everyone else to help me pick out scum, obviously I am evil through and through. Maybe I just won't post anything else for the rest of today and throw a vote out a few minutes before Nightfall like Kash and CJ... Because that is obviously Pro-Town.

I didn't catch this earlier when JL posted it but Dirtydawg just brought this up. The statement from JL that Dirtydawg bolded says anyone who died and was revealed as a citizen could actually have been a either citizen, a rebel, or a wiseguy IF they were protected. We just don't know it. So if someone (rebels, mafia, or bala) put protection on them and they die... we have no way to tell what they were because JL isn't going to be specific? If this is true, then any of the 4 citizens we lost tonight may not have been innocent citizens. They could also have been mafia or rebels if someone protected them. And any of them could come back later (like Zigman did) and we still won't be able to tell which role they have?

According to that part above from JL and Dirtydawg, we can't tell if they were citizens or mafia (don/wiseguy) or rebels. The problem I have with this is... how are we supposed to narrow anything down if we're not sure which role a player had before they died because we cant' tell who gets protected?

I kinda wanted to know what Zsandman was thinking as this happened, too, then wasn't all that sure I wanted the answer I'd get. lol... But since MC is asking the same thing, I might as well.

Zsandman - (1) why did you vote for me then, and (2) why did you retract it?
Look Up
If Dirtydawg's interpretation of what JL said is true, then using me as a litmus test to figure this out isn't going to do the town any good. If I'm scum, a wiseguy, or an innocent... all someone else has to do is protect me first before the town strings me up and JL will only tell you that I'm a citizen. I'm still out of the game at that point, of course, but the town still won't know anything more than we already do now.

That's the reason I retracted, there needs to be some serious discussion, as with all the ways to die, come back, and flip sides I am not sure I trust any of my instincts on who is who in this game. Reminds me of a Viles game. That said, I may be way off on my list of suspects, but some of you have the reading comprehension of turnips. Or at least appear that way to try and turn folks against the more outspoken of us.