Those poor fish...

Originally posted by Corax
Had I not observed it myself, I wouldn't preach about it.
Click to expand...

Well I don't think these boards are about "preaching" they are about sharing experiences, ideas, and information.

Like I stated earlier in this thread, I have had nothing but great susccess with the biowheel I have on my q-tank and find the best way to keep down nitrates, regardless of filtration technique, is the frequency of H2O changes.

Good Luck to Riptide in your conversion to the salty side of things.
 
I've removed the bio-wheels last night and decided to not wait until I had more stuff in there. That seemed a wiser course of action (to get them out now, rather than later).

Now, later, don't really matter as long as they're gone =)

So, correct me if I'm wrong here, but with the bio-wheels out of the picture I am relying on two things for bio-filtration: the small amount of live rock I have (15'), and the small amount of area present in the emperor 400's filter box for bacteria to affix to. Other than that all I have running is my protein skimmer and a power head. I intend to add more LR, but with only a single fish to keep in there for a while the 15' should hopefully be enough to support him.

As new as your tank seems to be, the biowheels were of little use to you, iologically speaking. It takes weeks - months to get them all gooped up and bacteria ridden. And no, you missed your sigle greatest piece of biological filtration...... EVERYTHING in your tank, the glass, the rocks, the floating thermometer, the hoses, etc... Anything that feels slimey, is good for your tank. That "slime" is the bacteria, (and some algae probably) growing to support life.

What do you think about taking some of the smaller loose pieces of LR and putting them in my emperor's filter box? Would that assist w/bio filtration? It wouldn't be wet/dry, so it shouldn't cause the problems the bio-wheels do right?

An excellent idea, the more water flow it gets, the better..

Rudy, I tend to preach on people when I know they're doing something unwise. Riptide's crushed coral is, in the long run at least, unwise.. I will continue to harp on him till he takes it out =)
 
I agree with Corax on both accounts, and will expand a bit on the biowheel problem.

The bacteria that process ammonia and nitrites are very efficient, and capable of existing in huge colonies--every location in your tank will host them. The bacteria which process nitrates are old school--anaerobics. Not only are there fewer places for them to colonize, but they have less access to their food sources, the beds grow slower, and it's more work to digest the nitrates (oxidizing with an oxygen source is quick and efficient). So, the colony of nitrate eaters would have to be much, much larger in order to use all of the nitrates created by a much smaller colony of aerobic bacteria. With deep sand beds and live rock, you can achieve a balance when combined with water changes. If you intentionally increase the size of the colonies producing the nitrates, it's hard for the anaerobes to catch up. Will they? Maybe, eventually. But, waiting for that to happen can cause some serious problems.

Crushed coral contributes to the problem in two ways. First, the trapped detritus within the CC contributes to ammonia levels immediately--even with weekly cleaning, the waste will break down. Second, the CC is a decent place for aerobic bacteria, but even in extreme depths (I believe FishWhisperer tested up to 18 inches), it provides no place for the anaerobics to thrive.
 
If fine sand is so totally superior to crushed coral then why is it still on the market? 10 years ago when I had my first marine tanks that is all anybody really used...
 
I agree completely with the Crushed Coral issue. I used to use it back in the early 90's, but at that time I had it covering several large undergravel filters which were powered with multiple powerheads to create a nice water, hence O2, flow through the coral. However, I am sure there remained anaerobic spots anyway. That type of system (crushed coral with powered undergravel filters), actually works quite well, but is antiquated and neccesitates increased hardware in the tank itself.

In addition, to the biological benefits of a DSB the aquarium inhabitants seem to like the sand much more too! Especially any fish that burrows by nature, e.g. gobies, and the various critters that forage off the sea floor, e.g. crabs, shrimp, snails, etc.

Corax, All I am saying is not all system set-ups are neither ideal or practical for all situations. It is my contention, based on my experience alone, that a good amount of H2O changes, good water cirulation, a DSB, and a Biowheel, have all served me well for my small (10 gal) Q-tank. Therefore, if it has worked well for me I am inclined to share my experience. I agree, for a larger tank I would not use biowheels becuase, as you have inferred there is likely no need provided you have enough LR.

Happy Holidays. :)

P.S. I can't wait until I post a question surrounding best recommended filtration as I begin set-up on my new 125g following the holidays. The trouble will be sifting through all the advise and deciding which way to go. :eek:
 
Rip, it is still on the market cuz people keeping buying it based on what their LFS tells em. If you hadn't found out here, do you think your LFS woulda said "Hey, don't spend $10/bag for our crushed coral, it's not good for you tank AND you can get something cheaper at Home Depot"? Nope, it's a cash crop for em, just like all the chemical crap they try to push on ya.

Rudy, sounds like fun! When ya gonna start it up?

Onion, sometimes I wish I could just download your brain and burn myself a copy of it =) You always know the technical answer for whatever gibberish I'm trying to explain.
 
Products are on the market because they sell, not because they are worthwhile. Look at Cycle and Ken dolls.
 
I believe the fine white sand they were selling at my LFS was more expensive than the CC and nobody said anything to me when I decided to get the coral. I could be wrong about this, but the coral is the "cheap stuff" vs. the white sand (aragonite?) that everyone seems to use now.

I understand your point and your probably right. However, it's not like CC doesn't work or is going to destroy the tank. They used it for years and people still had nice looking tanks with the stuff. I don't have an UG filter going on it nor do I intend to... It will be vacuumed at least bi-weekly during the water changes.

I am going to be moving this summer and have plans to move to a different aquarium (probably at least an 80g). At that point I will consider changing over to the sand but for now I've put enough work into getting all of this going I really don't relish the thought of draining the whole thing out, stressing the chunk of LR I have, and then having to buy more substrate and refill the tank. Call me lazy, but I've done enough work over the last two weeks on this.

That said, I am only using about 1" of crushed coral right now. If it is acceptable to put another 2" of sand over the top of it I might be willing to do that since it wouldn't require the drain and scoop. Whaddya think?
 
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CC= biweekly cleaning, good chance for nitrate spiking, and low probability for anaerobic bacteria production

DSB= never needs cleaning, very low chance of nitrate problems when supplemented with a cleaning crew, great amount of room for anaerobic bacteria, much cheaper

both work, but if you are starting out, what would you do?
 
Can I pour the sand over the top of the 1" of CC I have or is it going to *require* the drain and scoop? Is the white sand everyone seems to be using (ie, not "playbox sand") going to buffer the tank as well as the CC?
 
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