Disprove Global Warming!!!

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If I were to use your logic, I would have to assume that the weatherman on TV can't predict the weather within a certain degree of certainty. However, statistically most meteorologists are fairly accurate

What statistics are you using to back this up? What do you mean by fairly accurate?

Q
 
I just want to say I am impressed that you guys are keepign this ontopic and not personal. Keep it going, very interesting stuff!
 
I wrote a couple of papers on human caused climate change back in the early 80s as an undergrad. Back then the big concerns were tropical deforestation and airborne particulates. We have had good success in reducing sulfur and other aerosols since then, but less success in reducing deforestation. I wish more attention was paid to this than mankind's neglibible contribution to so called 'greenhouse gas' emissions.
 
I wrote a couple of papers on human caused climate change back in the early 80s as an undergrad. Back then the big concerns were tropical deforestation and airborne particulates. We have had good success in reducing sulfur and other aerosols since then, but less success in reducing deforestation. I wish more attention was paid to this than mankind's neglibible contribution to so called 'greenhouse gas' emissions.


Exactly.

I don't know that our contribution to greenhouse gas is negligable- you can accurately map global temperatures rising with global industrialisation...

... but the simple fact is deforestation is vastly changing the earths ecosystem and one of the worst threats to ecology.

We have, as a species, completely altered the earth. Entire mostly-wooded continents have been turned into grasslands with the odd patches of trees.

We're all aquarists... we know what a major difference plants make to the quality of the water. The earth used to be full of tall growing trees- think of a tank completely stocked with anacharis, bacopa, ludwigia, hygro, ferns... now the earth is a tank with just a few patches of algae and java moss.

Unlike a tank- you can't just expect the CO2 to escape and mix with fresh air above. There is no fresh air above... there are no water changes. A balanced system is necessary. The earth currently is very unbalanced- we've taken away natures way of balancing out the cycle.


We may not be the only cause for global warming- but we are a significant contributor.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by prolude006
...most of the towns from only 200 years ago are completely gone and consumed by trees, plants and other life.


Then I said:

Do you have a source to back up this statement?

Q

Then you say:

yes my backyard!!!

:headshake2:

Q
 
Here is a link that gives a good summation of the sceptical view:
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Again, this site seems to aim towards clouding the waters moreso than it clarifies. Though I understand that when water vapor is factored in, the percentage of actual harmful material released in the form of air pollution seems to be incredibly small, but again, this focuses attention on the wrong statistics. When one scrolls further down the page, to see the actual ratios of human produced waste compared to what's naturally present, even the numbers the skeptics provide are pretty scary. We as aquarists are used to discussing things in parts per million, and occasionally even parts per billion, so why is it hard to grasp that a 3% increase in co2 production would have a very significant impact. Additionally, it bears repeating that keeping the earth's natural balance assumes a much higher load of forested land than currently available. Beyond that, to assume that increasing methane output by nearly 20% and cfc output by almost 70% has no noticeable effect is pure silliness. The author of that particular page seems to have an issue with the tendency to remove water vapor from the statistics, but I can see how that makes perfect sense. Our water vapor output may make up for 90%+ of airborne emissions, but on the global scale, it is insignificant. The measurements of other substances emitted however, especially when compared to what nature emits, are much more statistically relevant. So far I'm seeing quite a bit of bad science and sensationalism on the skeptic's side as well. Just look at this tasty passage that may produce strong feelings, but really doesn't stand up to close scrutiny or a logical thought process.

Ways to stop producing carbon dioxide
Stop breathing - When you exhale you release carbon dioxide
Dont drive - We all know how bad driving is
Don't live in a house/apartment/condo or any building that uses gas or electricity - Homes produce 2-3 times as much carbon as cars.
Don't wear shoes or any sort of clothing produced in a factory. Grow a cotton field and make your own clothes by hand.
Quit school - Those school buildings produce more carbon in a year then you do in 20 years.
Eat meat raw - Whether you're using gas or electric both produce carbon dioxide.
Turn off this monitor and computer - You hypocrite.
Don't use toilets, go in your back yard.- The water to your house is cleaned and sent to your house using pumps that use electricity.
Stop exercising - Increasing your heart rate increases the amount of oxygen you take in and turn into carbon dioxide.
Die - Dying younger means you will do all of the above less. Living one year less means you will save the earth 8.4 tons of carbon dioxide every year you're not here!

Yes... I get it, our presence, in its current state is not good for the earth. If anything, this passage is more of an impetus to change our way of living down to its most fundamental level, not an argument for why curtailing emissions does not matter. Salaciously sensationalist as the above passage is, it again adds no relevance to the discussion.
 
most of the towns from only 200 years ago are completely gone and consumed by trees, plants and other life.

I am sorry, but is that a SERIOUS statement? Because, I am am pretty sure there are more towns now than 200 years ago, and those that have been "consumed" usually have done so by fire, etc.

Kristina
 
I completely disagree. The charts show trends. And trends are an indicator of future events. If I were to use your logic, I would have to assume that the weatherman on TV can't predict the weather within a certain degree of certainty. However, statistically most meteorologists are fairly accurate, and from the times before the industrial revolution to today with these non natural environmental chemicals being a factor.

meteorologists predict weather on a day to day basis, not by the thousands of years in which temps rise and fall. my argument is that industry is a contributing factor, i cant understand how weather people can be used as an example, unless they are reporting weather form hundreds of years ago.

we are very overdue for an ice age, that just tells me more how humans have affected the climate. receding polar ice caps are also an indicator, if this was a natural cycle the polar bears that are dieing off would have had time to adjust to the new climate, just as prehistoric mammoths had time to grow long coats of fur before freezing to death
 
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