Mafia 94: When Gingers Attack; the play

[the wizard]

Nightfall will happen as planned. Except it's going to be at 6pm Pacific instead.:lipssealedsmilie:

:lol:

 

[the wizard]

I don't have a lot of time and will answer question's tomorrow, but just wanted to make this point.

The Gingers had a switch they didn't use yet. I'm thinking they would have wanted to use that if they thought they were going to possibly loose a player, therefore I'm thinking the players with single votes, or no votes are where I'm going to be focusing my attention.

A couple of things here.

First, it appears as though 2H was the first to bring up that they didn't use their serum.

Second, rather that look at who voted Plant off, he wants to look at those who did not post or behave in a suspicious manner.

If you are pro town, I cannot grasp your logic. It seems to me that only scum would want to avoid looking at those responsible for voting off an innocent.

 

[the wizard]

Look at anyone you want. After giving it some more thought. I believe everyone voted for an innocent last night. I don't think there was a "ginger" on the board anywhere.

How can you be so sure? Why the vote switches if all the lead vote getters were innocent?

The syrum not being used. Suppose you give me your thoughts on why you think it wasn't used.

Bold Statment !?!?!? I'm posting what I'm thinking. Is your real problem that you are on the list?

Again bringing up the serum not being used. 2H, it would appear to me that you have been trying to distract the town. You make bold statements with out any evidence.

You brought up the scum not using the serum twice. It then became a topic that pretty much dominated the thread today and where did that get us? Did we uncover any deep dark scum secrets?

On a final note, you have yet to actually state why you voted Plant. JP gave his reason, LR gave her reason and Rich stated his reason. You on the other hand said something like this shouldn't come as a surprise.

Your play has not been very pro town IMO.

 

[the wizard]

I've done the math. I've done it both ways and I see how your way could work in the mafia's favor but that would be best case for them. What I tried to explain before is that the what happens is not always the best case. Keep in mind best case being for the gingers, not the town. There are other ways to go about things and other ways for decisions to play out.



I understand your logic but what I find odd is why you are having such a hard time understanding (or admitting to understanding) mine. Mafia is not black and white, you know that, and I think sometimes the best way to approach a situation is to look in the grey area. Would you not agree with that?

[yt]pmT6udys8Tc[/yt]

 

[Kashta]

Hey folks. I've tried to catch up with the game but it's not working tonight. There's too many pages of posts and nothing seems to stick.

I'll try again before work in the morning. Hope some sleep will help.

 

[jpappy789]

I didn't see Ice's vote but I since see you meant Chill. Ice - Chill close I already said I only talked about the ones I felt made more of an impact. I spoke about JPap because of his reasoning for voting Plant which turns out not to be a legit reason. I'm not faulting him because I made the same mistake at first with Plant. But I felt it deserved a look. I also mentioned Lab after the fact which was another one I though stood out in the group. If you want a full account go back and look, like I did.

Yes, my vote had to be early and was more rushed than I wanted it to be because of my schedule. I can't say I would have come to a different or the same conclusion as the day went on when I know now that she was innocent.

I'm not sure how much more I can explain but at this point in time they have all their mafia members so there is no need to gain another. Need being the key word. If we are able to lynch/ genetically test one of the gingers, then I can see where targeting a townie is more productive. Then they could replace the one they lost. Make sense so far? As far as not using their hit, well I guess that would be a personal decision between the mafia members. Yes, they could do the same with a hit. Also, keep in mind if they turn someone, that person is going to have to rework their game play (provided they weren't already looking at the wrong people). That shift would be fairly obvious to the town and would be something everyone would be on the lookout for if we knew the syrum was used. Follow? So then everyone is suspecting that person and we vote to test them. Well that one mafia member that they gained is now lost so they are back to the number they had before, right? So I guess it would have to fit the situation, kill an innocent or turn an innocent but have them die by testing. Almost the same thing right?

I have no idea if that makes any more sense than before but trust me, it all makes sense in my head! :nilly:

I don't follow you Razz. What about removing one townie AND gaining a vote for your team doesn't seem attractive to the scum?

I'm not sure which games you have played so far but there has to have been at least one where a turn was involved. Finding that person is never as easy as you make it out to be...it's early enough in the game where inconsistencies are more tolerated. Changing teams now, IMO, would be easier than later in the game when there is more of a pattern to for others to follow.

I know but I still don't think they should use the hit...they should use the serum instead

I am assuming this was meant more to be tongue and cheek than actual strategy?

Guys...Stop over thinking it! If the scum don't use a hit it benefits the innocents. I was wondering at first why Rich was giving advice in the thread as to what the scum should do with their hits and serum. I thought it would be great if they used the serum and saved a hit. You really don't understand that? I'm not saying scum would actually do it but hey...it would be nice. You don't agree?

Again, I am assuming that you don't actually think this is a legit strategy and rather it is wishful thinking...I cannot think of a time in the history of AC mafia where the scum team purposefully decided not to hit someone...especially when it could be coupled with another hit or even a turn on the same night.

Maybe in the course of questioning Razz, Rich (and Lab) did help the mafia in some way. However, you also have to weigh that against the questioning of someone who is not making sense...ie, Razz. Are you suggesting that they should have let the comments by Razz just slide?

 

[jpappy789]

No G, I was re-hashing an earlier post were she stated I hadn't posted, but missed that Wiz hadn't either. I believe Zaffy and others commented on it. I'm surprised you missed all those posts.

Funny that you would say that here, because back in post 253 you corrected Wiz about her, pappy, and I.

2H, can you flat out say what your reasoning for voting plant was? To be honest, this reference doesn't help as it is to a post of LG's where she is quoting Wiz. I don't see the significance as nothing in that post is specific...it just has LG putting you and plant together when Wiz said the Plant/Pir back-and-forth(aka discussion = commotion) was confusing or something like that...

From what I can tell you and Plant disagreed on a couple of things.

1) She missed that Wiz had not posted when you attempted to call you out

I don't see how that could be your reasoning as in a later post you said something to the effect that you believed she was being truthful and just missed Wiz's absence.

2) The number of evils and town PRs

Ultimately you admitted to skimming the rules.

So what else about plant garnered your vote? Your answer to G isn't exactly satisfactory, at least in my opinion. Again, she never referenced any specific interaction between the two of you.

Unless there are posts I am completely missing then I cannot see a reason mentioned that suggests why you voted plant.

 

[jpappy789]

" when you attempted to call you out" should be when SHE attempted to call you out

 

[jpappy789]

Dawg, I want to add one more thing for you...

Why did you single out Rich for giving advice to the scum in the thread when Lab mentioned the same thing two times before Rich even got involved in the discussion with Razz?

I fully agree with you on that type of play getting old, but I felt I had a stronger suspect with Plant or Kash. If I'd kept my vote on Pir it would have been because I was annoyed with his play, not because he was my best suspect. In hindsight I should have kept my vote on him.


This is an extremely bold statement. I have no idea how you can come to this conclusion so early in the game.


Interesting. I didn't pick up on anything in his play that would say PR. Did you see something that made you think he was a PR?


I can't say I'm leaning anyone on that list towards innocent. Your reasoning mystifies me. I understand they didn't use the serum but I don't see how that clears those on your list.


Why would they aim for a PR with the serum? Makes more sense to avoid a PR with the serum so they have the chance to turn someone. That ups their numbers while dropping townie numbers. They can take out PRs with hits. I do not understand where you are coming from with that statement Razz.




I have to admit I missed the part about the chance of it killing Jessica Rabbit. I was thinking it was 50/50 turn/kill for whoever it was used on. I couldn't figure out what a cartoon townie would look like. :duh: I need to get more sleep...

I still don't see why you think the scum would target a PR with the serum when targeting a townie gives them a shot for another member and a guaranteed loss for the town. Can you explain your reasoning further?

THEN Rich says this:

If I had the serum and my teammate investigated a PR, I would hit the PR and use the serum on some else. You get two that way. I cant see how you would think it any other way.

But you only say Rich gave the "advice"

Guys...Stop over thinking it! If the scum don't use a hit it benefits the innocents. I was wondering at first why Rich was giving advice in the thread as to what the scum should do with their hits and serum. I thought it would be great if they used the serum and saved a hit. You really don't understand that? I'm not saying scum would actually do it but hey...it would be nice. You don't agree?

Not trying to turn this on Lab but I don't understand why you just ignored the fact that she brought it up first.

 

[jpappy789]

I actually missed it too, until 2H brought it up, then used it to "clear" all that had votes on them, when I re read it I realized that part.

Interested in knowing how JB's clarification that the vial doesn't kill Jessica Rabbit at all changes your thinking G...

I've been thinking about this more..and I wonder if it will be said at nightfall when it happens, they very well may have used it..or it may of been used on Plant in case she wasn't lynched? JB...can you tell us if it will be stated when it is or attemped to be used?


Thanks...I will
Why would you say that?



I don't get why AAF is getting a pass from you...yes he is new, but still if your making lists you should include ALL players I would think.
Again, a list that leaves where you personally voted off...kinda convenient if you ask me, first we shouldn't look at anyone who voted Plant, then we shouldn't look at anyone that had ANY votes?


Nope, I went back and re read the thread some more to see if there was anything I missed, in the meantime someone made a post with the rules in it, while reading that post..I realized I had worded my vote wrong so I fixed it

Maybe you misspoke G but where did 2H every say that the votes on plant shouldn't be looked at? AFAIK 2H first said those with multiple votes shouldn't be looked at (or rather were not going to be focused on) which would have included Plant if she were alive. But that had nothing to do with the people that voted her.

Yes, yes I do actually care how many evils there are.




These two posts go with the next....



A very good reason they may not of used it if one of there own was up for the lynch...it isn't a for sure thing only 50/50...if it doesn't work they die...why would they chance loosing two?
Relooking at it, I have to change my mind of the fact they would wait till they found a PR..since if it is used on a PR it kills them instead of turns them from what it looks like to me (which yes, killing a PR is a good thing for them) but why waste a chance for a turn to kill someone you could just hit, but if you look at the nightly events..they can either use the syrum OR their hit..I don't think they get both in one night.
Since you brought this whole syrum thing up 2H..I assume you read the role pretty good...how did you miss that? Were you hoping no one would catch those two important details and just blindly follow with your "No one voted for was evil" theory?


Most of the time, yes it is announced..and I assume it would be, if it worked...but there have been games where things like that were not mentioned if it didn't work We need to see what JB say's

Was this ever clarified by JB as well? According to the Chuck Norris rule they get a hit each night, but I see why the "/" in the nightly events may make it seem like only one happens per night.