steelerfan's 30 Gallon Breeder Journal/Build

Wrasse is doing great. Love him!

Man I don't know my LPS look like crap but all my SPS and zoas look really good. My corals are growing and that has led to increased consumption but after looking att all of the test I have done my parameters were never reall off enough (or off long enough) to have caused this IMO. After talking to my LFS and doing some research online I'm thinking I may have Australian Black Bugs. Really the only thing I can do at this point is use Interceptor which you probably are aware of based on the dogs in your avatar. Most instructions are to dose the entire tank which is something I decided that I am just not going to do. While there are plenty of reports of not having any issue with this treatment, it will kill crustaceans. I my case that really only impacts my shrimp but I would also lose a large number of good copepods in the process and in my case I have a lot which could cause a spike. Also, there isn't any reserach I have found that determines whether bilogical filtration is affected. When I do my water change tomorrow or Staurday I am going to pull all of my SPS and put them in a hospital tank for a 6+ hour interceptor bath and place them back in the tank after a rinse. I will probably do this every week for 4 weeks. If this doesn't work along with keep my parameters in check, I will just have to take the loss. Not excited about it since I have a lot of $ tied up in these corals but just not going to risk my entire system's health. From what I understand these are obligate predators which kind of explains why I am only seeing the issue with LPS. If this is the case I am hoping the routine dips will eventually erradicate these pests! If not I won't have any LPS left and if I leave the tank LPS free any remaining bugs should die off.

Sorry to clog up your thread with by bad mojo. For your reference though the off the shelf coral dips do not seem to kill these pests so even the preventative dips I have done were apparently ineffective and I didn't know it until now. That is based on research I have done as well as now my own persnonal experience. Interceptor is the only proven way to kill them. QT is also something that should be considered when dealing with aussie LPS.
 
you are not clogging up my thread bud, so please, don't even mention it.

love getting your input on things.

never heard of ausi black bugs.

have you ever seen any of them?

i know you are not treating your whole tank, but just wanted to let you know they guy who has a 120 reef close to metreated his tank with the interceptor and his skunk cleaner and coral banded were fine.

just curious why you are treating your sps in hospital tank if they look good?

why not pull all your lps out and treat?

i am looking into a 2 strip t-5 for my 10 gallon as i am gonna do what you said to and qt even my corals going in.

it is a pain and i know why alot of people say the heck with it, but i can deal with it to not have a potential bigger more expensive issue down the road.

hope you figure it out bud.

keep me posted if it was indeed those black bugs.

greech said:
Wrasse is doing great. Love him!

Man I don't know my LPS look like crap but all my SPS and zoas look really good. My corals are growing and that has led to increased consumption but after looking att all of the test I have done my parameters were never reall off enough (or off long enough) to have caused this IMO. After talking to my LFS and doing some research online I'm thinking I may have Australian Black Bugs. Really the only thing I can do at this point is use Interceptor which you probably are aware of based on the dogs in your avatar. Most instructions are to dose the entire tank which is something I decided that I am just not going to do. While there are plenty of reports of not having any issue with this treatment, it will kill crustaceans. I my case that really only impacts my shrimp but I would also lose a large number of good copepods in the process and in my case I have a lot which could cause a spike. Also, there isn't any reserach I have found that determines whether bilogical filtration is affected. When I do my water change tomorrow or Staurday I am going to pull all of my SPS and put them in a hospital tank for a 6+ hour interceptor bath and place them back in the tank after a rinse. I will probably do this every week for 4 weeks. If this doesn't work along with keep my parameters in check, I will just have to take the loss. Not excited about it since I have a lot of $ tied up in these corals but just not going to risk my entire system's health. From what I understand these are obligate predators which kind of explains why I am only seeing the issue with LPS. If this is the case I am hoping the routine dips will eventually erradicate these pests! If not I won't have any LPS left and if I leave the tank LPS free any remaining bugs should die off.

Sorry to clog up your thread with by bad mojo. For your reference though the off the shelf coral dips do not seem to kill these pests so even the preventative dips I have done were apparently ineffective and I didn't know it until now. That is based on research I have done as well as now my own persnonal experience. Interceptor is the only proven way to kill them. QT is also something that should be considered when dealing with aussie LPS.
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My bad that was a mistype. Meant treating LPS in hospital tank.

You can't see these bugs with the naked eye. Some black bugs like the ones that come in on montipora are similar to red bugs and you can see them but these are too small. Definitely good that you are QTing.

As for your alage you might consider some GFO in your aquaclear. Either the bulk reef supply GFO, phosban or Rowaphos. The later does a very good job with silicates which is what you diatoms are feeding off of. However, as long as you are not adding silicates to your tank somehow then the diatoms will dies when the wipe out their supply. Chemipure Elite is another option but not as effective IME.
 
do you have the equipment to qt your lps longterm until the bugs could die out in main tank?

i hope you get it under control bud.

i may look into the brs gfo. too bad as i just placed an order with them lastweek.

i don't think i am adding any silicates as my water is 0 tds.

i am also using the real polyfilter which says it does take up phosphates, but i am thinking like all new tanks, i will just have to wait for the process.

gonna do a water change right now and suck up those diatoms. stuff is nasty :-)

greech said:
My bad that was a mistype. Meant treating LPS in hospital tank.

You can't see these bugs with the naked eye. Some black bugs like the ones that come in on montipora are similar to red bugs and you can see them but these are too small. Definitely good that you are QTing.

As for your alage you might consider some GFO in your aquaclear. Either the bulk reef supply GFO, phosban or Rowaphos. The later does a very good job with silicates which is what you diatoms are feeding off of. However, as long as you are not adding silicates to your tank somehow then the diatoms will dies when the wipe out their supply. Chemipure Elite is another option but not as effective IME.
Click to expand...
 
Good that silicates aren't coming in from your water which means the silicates coming off all your new plastics, the dry rock and even the tank itself will eventually be consumed and they'll be out of your hair soon.

You know that's a good point as I was just planning on doing routine dips once a week. The tought being that I would kill off any parasites that happen to be on the coral at the time of dip and then future treatments would kill of those that jumped on after placing the corals back in the tank. Basically using the corals as bait. Leaving the tank LPS(less) for a month might be a better idea but my corals are pretty much melting away now so I don't really have time to cycle a QT tank. Maybe I could spare a piece of LR out of my tank but not sure that would be enough.

Those diatoms will come right back after about 24 hours. Keeping the light off will help keep them down but don't sweat them, no biggie and everyone gets them.

Thanks for the ideas!
 
I use Revive as an initial/prevntative dip but apparently (from my reading) it is not effective against these black bugs (only interceptor). The Revive and Coral Rx is reported to drive some of the bugs out but the kill rate is low.
 
greech said:
Good that silicates aren't coming in from your water which means the silicates coming off all your new plastics, the dry rock and even the tank itself will eventually be consumed and they'll be out of your hair soon.

You know that's a good point as I was just planning on doing routine dips once a week. The tought being that I would kill off any parasites that happen to be on the coral at the time of dip and then future treatments would kill of those that jumped on after placing the corals back in the tank. Basically using the corals as bait. Leaving the tank LPS(less) for a month might be a better idea but my corals are pretty much melting away now so I don't really have time to cycle a QT tank. Maybe I could spare a piece of LR out of my tank but not sure that would be enough.

Those diatoms will come right back after about 24 hours. Keeping the light off will help keep them down but don't sweat them, no biggie and everyone gets them.

Thanks for the ideas!
Click to expand...

you don't have any filter material in your sump that could have bacteria on it greech?

that's a bummer man.

your tank was my imspiration to get going.

i hope you can save them, esp that really nice duncan.

if you can't save them do you think you will set up a cycled qy and start from there with lps or will you be done?

did you get any of your lps from diver's den?
 
Hmmm.. new one on me Greech, the black bugs.. I do have interceptor in my "arsenal" of meds, and have used it on other people tanks for Red Bugs.. it is pretty "reef safe" if dosed accordingly to some extent. My friend Guillo1 dosed his entire tank several times to kill red bugs (worked perfect) and I think he may have lost about 2 snails total.. not bad at all for dosing something directly into a reef tank. Biggest problem, as I am sure you already know, is interceptor is a prescription only med that a vet must prescribe, and that is the hardest part to obtaining it.
 
I was able to get some interceptor and have enough for about 4 treatments to my entire system. This is the article I read which now that I have re-read it seems to focus more on black bugs on montipora. Now I'm even more confused about which direction to go. Guess I could consider catching my skunk and taking him to another tank and just dose the tank. These Aussie bugs though I have read on RC that only interceptor will do them in. Very small and live within the tissue of the coral.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/3/corals

One of the parts that bothered me...

"Hobbyists using medications for in-tank treatments should expect losses of livestock. This could be a result of sensitivity of the organism(s) to the toxic nature of the chemical, or perhaps as through secondary effects. To my knowledge, no one has investigated the responses of nitrifying bacteria to medications mentioned in this article. Nitrifying bacteria populations are generally more easily upset than their carbonaceous counterparts."
 
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