Mafia 61: The Gunslinger - Game Thread

[Lab_Rat]

Ok, just went back through the whole thread. Admittedly there is some skimming, but I tried to focus on jpap's and ag's interactions with others. I also pulled some of Ice's posts, I wish zombie Ice could give us his thoughts on why he said what he said.

Well Jpap, in this game and this format, I'd have to say I agree with you, Ice was their (your) best choice.

I also agree with Ice, Kash or you would have been a better choice. My top three would be Kash, Jpap, Ice, in that order, unless of course Jpap and Kash were on my team.

If Ice shot me now, I'd shoot you or Kash next. Wanna know why? Ask.

Well, we know Ice was Annie's top choice since Annie was mafia scum. We know Kash is innocent. Is this distancing right from the start? Or is this simply Annie trying to get two good players shot by Ice?

Annie...I'm very curious as to why you see me and Kash are better choices than Ice. As of now I see Ice as a wash, a dangerous player but has a reputation of being bad when good. So I wouldn't choose him first, but not scratch him off the list entirely. Since choosing the gunslinger is basically the equivalent of hitting someone just w/o it being 100%, I would likely choose a middle of the road player just for the sake of it. Theres a chance they will die and for the most part it could be considered random since its not a high profile player. My first choices would be along the lines of Zaffy or Dawg or Rich. All are skilled players but arent overly talkative. Keeping Ice or Kashta around would help me personally fit in more since they usually post more like I tend to do. Getting rid of low posters is sort of unproductive seeing as they are not a threat. I dont think picking Ice was the smartest idea, so maybe picking me or Kashta would be considered better (not the best though), but why do you think that?

Well, we now know that isn't true. Fortunately Ice was able to pick both Zaffy and TRS as mafia out of the low posters. Is Ag hiding as a low poster? Is jpap trying to throw suspicion off of himself?

Dawg, your second assertion is correct.

I think Ice taking out a low poster is a good idea if nothing else comes up. I said I wouldn't want to choose a low poster as gunslinger.

Now jpap changes his mind (I don't think I got confused here but maybe look at this interaction again). Obviously it was a good call for Ice to take out low posters.

This would be the case IF we/Ice doesnt have a better option. At this point its damage control...targeting a high poster would be great if they are mafia, but if not we lose Ice and potentially the targeted person the next day. Shooting a low poster is the same but less of a loss if they are innocent. But like you said, a talkative gunslinger is the only way the town can win besides luck. Either way, I see pitfalls.



Hmmm, that sounds like a decent idea Kash. May I suggest Annie as a target?

He plays wonderfully when evil yet still kicks bushes when innocent. If he's mafia, then we're rid of a sneaky player but if he get the gunslinger role then I dont think he will abandon us.

I've only played with him and Agass from that list. And when I played with Agass we we're both evil and he didn't do much. I dont really have faith in the other players given my limited experience with them...

Thoughts?



I agree, which is why Annies post intrigued me so much. I still think low profile and/or newer players would target people like Ice first. Annies assertion that his top three would be me, Kash, and Ice worries me...I'm still waiting on the explanation.

He talks more about high posters vs low posters. I just bolded it because it follows with what stuck out to me before. Also, would jpap really throw Annie out as a main target from the get go if they're playing on the same team? Note that here jpap mentions playing with Ag when they were evil and how Ag didn't do much. That really sticks out to me...similar to what we're seeing this game???

My list would be:

Annie- not sure if mafia, but has me concerned. I think he's a great hit choice, personally.
Lab- that post about wanting to be gunslinger was off. Could be one to choose Ice.
Razz- a no show so far but is viewing
Zaffy/JB- either one fits the mold I laid out of who may have chosen Ice. Neither has done anything notoriously scummy but it strikes me odd that JB and I have been on the same page for the most part. I might just be paranoid but I'm interested in what he has to say next after posting "more later."

Would mafia list two of their own on their first list for distancing purposes? I really don't think jpap would put Annie in spot number 1 if they were on the same team. Though he does say "not sure" he follows up with "he's a great hit choice".

Kash
Jpap
Lab
JB/Zaffy

Total guess at this point.

Annie's list, which we know is bogus. Zaffy is in a good distancing position for being on the same team.

The rest of the team I'm not as sure about but I'm leaning the team to be

Kash
Jpap
JB
Z

They played off one another to much and to conveniently. I don't like the suspect lists at all except the fact they just about named the same players and even added one another as suspects.

I could be wrong and Annie could be on the team. At that point I'd probably drop Z off the team.

If Kash is mafia then I'd probably hit Jpap or JB next. I think they hold the key for me on who else could be on the team.

I wish Ice could tell us what he was thinking, why he compiled this list but ended up shooting Annie. We do know he eventually shot Kash and jb was one of his trusted a little later...why is jpap on this list?

If your innocent then you already have somewhat of a suspect list. Annie is your main suspect. Go from them and figure out the team.

Zs post about Kash pushes him higher on my list. I wouldn't at all be surprised that Annie is on the team. Annie threatening to shoot Kash or Jpap also leads me to believe Jpap is mafia.

Thats 4 right there. How close am I guys?

Can I have a Tommy Gun,Mad?

This is from Ice to Kash, right before Ice shot Annie. Not sure if I'm pulling something from nothing here. Again, wish zombie Ice had a voice.

Agi
TRS
Zaffy


Share some insight with us please. You guys are making my trigger finger itch.

All three making his trigger finger itchy...we now know 2/3 were mafia scum. Was Ice at 3/3 here?

Razz

Ag is the first one to point the finger at Razz. I though Ag claimed he was following the crowd.

One thing, if I'm wrong about Zaffy.

I trust Dawg and JB. They both have thought along the same lines as I have.

So Zaffy if you are innocent I'd look at Kash or Jpap as they are my next shots. If they are innocent then at least still have 2 players that have some sense about them.

Right before Ice shoots Zaffy. We know Kash was really Ice's suspect since he eventually shot her. Was jpap really suspected by Ice too?

To be honest Z is on my short list.

If Jpap isn't then Z is the last mafia,just have had that feeling the entire game and he was actually my 1st choice to shoot till I read Zaffys list again.

Again, Ice mentions jpap.

Decided to look at Ag next. This one was easy. The first thing I noticed was on the "who posted" page. If you look at the time stamps on the posts, for each real day the game has been on, there's two posts in quick succession (most within 10 minutes). Even newbs (I might say especially newbs), join the game to play. I doubt Ag joined the game with the intent of looking at it a few minutes a day and letting it go from there. This implies (to me) that Ag is getting his fun elsewhere... such as a scummy message board outside the thread. Now on to the content... this won't take long...


Well mafia sports fans, I think we've seen a new record set in the "say as little as possible and whatever you do don't commit yourself" event. I don't know what to think here. Either we've got a total newb, or a mafia. Dang, that feeling is back.

I have to lean Ag mafia.

From your own analysis of Ag's posts. Ag is no where near a total noob, though he may not have played many games here I've played my share with him to know there is no way he can play the noob card.

I just cant shake the feeling that theres a vet/high profile player left in the group. What are the odds that me, Ice, Kash, Dawg, and Z are all innocent? Not high but not out of the realms of probability.

I think this was the post you were looking for. Notice it's jpap who brings this up...

*sigh*

I wish Kash would have went with the rest of the town. Can't do anything about that now.

I still think shooting Razz, Agass, and Z is some sort of order will lead us to the win. If Lab or JB is the last mafia then I give up (not really).

It's 6-1 so shooting those three first wouldn't put us in a position to lose automatically if I'm thinking through this correctly.

Struck me as odd the first time I read it but I let it slide. When I went back it really strikes me as odd for him to say this with what we now know.

I can't look!

followed by

I just hope you or JB are not snowing us all

Even if you are you will be tracked down...lol

I have to say, this thought has stuck with me...

Son of a gunslinger!

I think its a tossup between Razz and Agass. I'd probably pick Razz first.

Seriously, if JB or Lab is the lone mafia I quit (still kidding).

Saying it again...that's just off to me.

What if we stand them in a line and shoot both with one shot? Like Indiana Jones and the germans?

Can we please do this with Ag and jpappy??? That way, yes, one will be collateral damage but the town wins.

So that's what I've come up with until the point Razz made his boneheaded shot. I'm going to re-read what you posted last night, I'll let you know any more thoughts I have on all this. I'll also let you know how I am leaning when I'm done re-reading the recent stuff.

 

[jpappy789]

Lab, please look at Dawgs first few posts of the game to clear up my point as to what I meant about low posters...

I said I wouldn't pick a low poster as Gunslinger if I was mafia. As a completely separate thought I said that Ice shooting a low poster if nothing came up would be a good decision.

As for my experience playing with Agass, yes, we specifically told him to lay low as he had been doing all game to avoid suspicion. He had been sliding by and was lynched mainly because the remainder of our evil team helped to throw him under the bus to look good. It's quite possible that he's been using the same strategy, although it seems to happen when he's innocent too. The only difference is that he has become much more talkative after becoming a top suspect. He says its because he wanted to be around if gunslinger but I dont believe that especially when he says he would have conceded if mafia.

 

[jpappy789]

Lab, please look at Dawgs first few posts of the game to clear up my point as to what I meant about low posters...

I said I wouldn't pick a low poster as Gunslinger if I was mafia. As a completely separate thought I said that Ice shooting a low poster if nothing came up would be a good decision.

As for my experience playing with Agass, yes, we specifically told him to lay low as he had been doing all game to avoid suspicion. He had been sliding by and was lynched mainly because the remainder of our evil team helped to throw him under the bus to look good. It's quite possible that he's been using the same strategy, although it seems to happen when he's innocent too. The only difference is that he has become much more talkative after becoming a top suspect. He says its because he wanted to be around if gunslinger but I dont believe that especially when he says he would have conceded if mafia.

I should also add that I then changed my mind about shooting a low poster right away and thus chose Annie as who I thought would make a great Day 1 shot.

 

[Lab_Rat]

1. My posting style changed dramatically because I was thinking that it was getting close to the time when I would be shot and needed to shoot someone. Since I was posting more, I was more interested in this game and began to see some theories that might convince people that I am really a townie (which I am), and that either Jpap or Labby are the mafia. I have to be honest, I hadn't read every post in this thread until this morning. I had only read parts here and there. I was thinking there was not much need for me to, since everyone playing is more experienced than myself and would probably not find my posts very helpful.

2. My list of suspects early on was sort of based off what other people were posting. I didn't know what Annie was, and didn't have any clue whether she was mafia or not. I jumped onto Razz because I thought that him viewing the thread for awhile, and taking a long time to get a post out there was suspicious. Plus, his posting style was very much different from the previous game, but of course mine is now too.

3. I went on to Zsand because most other people playing are very much more skilled then I and they all seemed to think he was scum. I decided that if I was shot, I would shoot him because I was pretty sure he would shoot Razz, since Razz was his top suspect. He ended up choosing Dawg (or was it Dawg that shot Zsand...can't remember) anyway. I wasn't sure if Razz would of shot Zsand or not. I was pretty sure at the time that either Razz or Zsand had to be the final mafia since everyone thought one of them or me was the last mafia. And I know I am not the last one.

4. Again, as I stated before, I have not provided much information to help out the town because I thought that anything I could of come up with wouldn't of helped much. Since, after all, everyone playing this game has more experience, and most people playing know the playing styles of others. I do not.

I don't expect you to believe this. You'll probably find more things that make me sound like mafia then Jpap and Lab. So, I'll end up being shot and being the one to blame for having thw town loose.

:bs: He's playing the noob card. I'm actually surprised he's trying this with me in the game as I've played a few games with him and he is no noob. I've seen him self destruct when he's communicating mafia as he did not like his role and his erratic postings and sudden coming on strong makes me think he realized he screwed up and is now trying to fix it with the noob card. His first list he never gave reasons for suspecting anyone. Why not put your thoughts out there for the gunslinger and town? That is, unless you're mafia...

I've got to say, Ag; if you are mafia this is a brilliant post. I've got to think more about this. Which works out well, since it'll take 6 hours and a lunch break to look through Jpappy's posts.

It's a very suspicious post. He sounds like he's being honest but I'm not buying the noob card one bit.

Take your time. Just remember that when Labby and Jpap see it, they'll probably pick it apart. Especially since one of them is mafia.

Not picking it apart, saying the whole thing is :bs:

Thanks, Labby. This is exactly how I feel.

Ag, how many games have you played?

I know he's played at least 2 previous games on this site, maybe more. He's been involved in 9 (well, #9 just started) as a player or moderator at another site. He knows the game very well. This may be a different format, with different players, but he is not new to this at all. It's a lot of why I say :bs:

Jb, I really hope that helps and does not lead to more confusion. Looking back, I totally see why you're uneasy about jpap, and I am too, especially since he started building a case against me yesterday when we thought for sure Razz would shoot Ag. I still don't understand his reasoning, does he know Ag will show innocent? Was he prepping ag to shoot me so the mafia would win? Ag jumped onto that thought and, from what I can discern, confused Razz enough to make him shoot you. Was this a brilliant mafia move?

As it stands, if I had to absolutely shoot someone right now, I would shoot Agassizii. Percentages I'm leaning towards have shifted towards jpappy, just after reading everything through. I am now 83.5% sure it's Ag for last mafia and 16.5% sure it's jpap. I'm sure that's not what you want to hear, but it's my thoughts at the moment. I really do want to hear from both of them and think you should wait until they chime in before making a decision.

I do have to say, I don't think you should reveal your thoughts as to what was important from the jpap/annie exchanges until after those two have weighed in.

 

[Lab_Rat]

Lab, please look at Dawgs first few posts of the game to clear up my point as to what I meant about low posters...

I said I wouldn't pick a low poster as Gunslinger if I was mafia. As a completely separate thought I said that Ice shooting a low poster if nothing came up would be a good decision.

As for my experience playing with Agass, yes, we specifically told him to lay low as he had been doing all game to avoid suspicion. He had been sliding by and was lynched mainly because the remainder of our evil team helped to throw him under the bus to look good. It's quite possible that he's been using the same strategy, although it seems to happen when he's innocent too. The only difference is that he has become much more talkative after becoming a top suspect. He says its because he wanted to be around if gunslinger but I dont believe that especially when he says he would have conceded if mafia.

Ok, went back and re-read. I may have skimmed through that section too fast and those had just stuck out. Agree that you listing Annie as the best first hit has shifted you towards the townie in my mind. Re-reading, I'm now willing to change the percentage of you being mafia, dropping it from 16.5% to 10%.

If y'all threw Ag under the bus last time that may very well explain his sudden change in play...laying low until he has no choice, then coming out strong. Like I said previously, I don't buy his "I'm a noob, I was confused" explanation. He could have at least posted his thoughts. That reminds me, there was something else I need to go look at...brb.

 

[Lab_Rat]

This is what has been really nagging me about Ag's play...he didn't answer questions the gunslinger asked until after her shot. He didn't give Ice reasons for his suspects. It bothers me.

Okay, time to regroup. You'll have to reassess a bit and help direct focus where it needs to be.. as you're doing already. I've clearly not been able to do that on my own. With 3 mafia down and 1 to go, we've got 7 townies to offer solid advice. While I do have a target in mind already (besides Dawg), this is important... I'm in no hurry to take my shot and I'm open to all input.

Soon, I'll post specific questions for everyone. In the mean time for those who haven't posted it already, this would help...

Top suspect
2nd choice

Please give reasons.

Time stamp for that post was 1/8 at 8:06pm CST...Kash asking for top two suspects.

I'm here, guys. No need to be in a rush. I don't expect to shoot anyone today, unless I get a real strong urge all of a sudden.

To recap how it stands now.... The town has come to an overwhelming consensus. Almost all of you are pointing at the same 3 people for pretty much the same reasons. That might make this easy for me, if I were willing to shoot based on consensus... after all, if I'm wrong and the silly gun blows up in my face, who cares? We still have several more shots to take without it costing us a win, right? Sounds real simple.. easy.. convenient. But I'm not convinced. Is this convenient for me taking my shot... or convenient for the mafia scum who's survived this far by going with the flow?

6 out of 7 named Razzle - Agass, Dawg, Jbradt, Jpappy, Lab Rat, Zsand
5 out of 7 named Zsand - Agass, Dawg, Jbradt, Jpappy, Lab Rat
3 out of 7 named Agass - Jbradt, Jpappy, Lab Rat

Note: No one has named Dawg, Jbradt, Jpappy, or Lab Rat.


Please name who you consider most innocent. Make that your top 3 names... and again, reasons are helpful.

Shouldn't be too much of a stetch at this point to come up with at least 3 out of 7 who you suspect the least. And I don't care whether you call them definitely innocent or just leaning innocent.

Lastly, I have one more issue to pin down...

Time stamp 1/9 at 4:37pm CST. Note she did add what Ag had written previously, but Ag never gave her a list or any rationale for why he chose who he chose. In fact, I don't think he posted since her first request.

Most trusted by the town.

5 out of 6 Jbradt - Dawg 1, Jpappy 1, Lab Rat 1, Razzle 1, Zsand 1
4 out of 6 Dawg - Jbradt 1, Jpappy 3, Lab Rat 3, Razzle 2
3 out of 6 Jpappy - Dawg 2, Lab Rat 2, Zsand 2
3 out of 6 Lab Rat - Dawg 3, Jbradt 2, Jpappy 2
1 out of 6 Agass - Zsand 3

Note: Nobody voted Razzle.
Note: Agass hasn't voted.
Note: I've shown the ranking order number to get a feel how the multi-votes get weighted... and by whom.

Town Ranking (Consensus)

Razzle
Zsand
Agass
Lab Rat
Jpappy
Dawg
Jbradt

Time stamp 1/9 at 11:55pm CST. Still have not heard from Ag, not very pro-town to me.

With all that explained... I shoot Dawg.

Time stamp 1/10 at 7:43am CST. Kash takes her shot. Ag has not shown up to help the gunslinger AT ALL. Do you really think he didn't check into the thread in that entire time.

Jb, Jpap and Labby...

because throughout the thread Zsand seems scummier then those three. I cannot see any of those three being mafia. Also, Razz's posting habits from this game and the last game are very much different, which leads me to believe he is mafia scum.

My top suspect is Razz followed by Zsand.

By the way, How do you multi quote? lol, haven't been able to figure that out.

I have to go to work in a few minutes. :yuck: I will return in four hours.

Time stamp 1/10 at 1:04pm CST: Oh, look who finally shows up! Finally an answer to Kash's question, well after it was asked and she took her shot. :bs:

 

[Lab_Rat]

Ok jb, that's all I've got. If you need anything else out of me please let me know. I hope that helped.

 

[Lab_Rat]

Ag, jpappy, either of you have anything to add?

 

[jpappy789]

Nope. I think Agass' lack of "insight" until he was really under pressure is enough to show that he hasn't been pro-town.

To be honest, I would almost rather shoot Agass and end up being snowed by Lab, who has played well, than shoot Lab (or myself) and let Agass slip by again and win. The best situation obviously being that Agass is mafia scum and is shot.

 

[Lab_Rat]

Where is that slippery scum Agassizii anyway? You know he's watching this thread closely. Yet no rebuttal, no response.